Getting clips from Arrange into Session?

[adamdegraff]

I understand that, in session mode, by pressing record and firing off clips, I can record my actions (and performance) into Arrange mode. Can I do that in reverse? Can I use Arrange mode like I do in Logic or ProTools and then get the tracks into Session Mode?

And along those lines (I'm new to Ableton obvsiously) if session mode and arrange mode aren't different views of the same thing, then why the ability to toggle between them. I don't see how they are linked at all. Or, am I missing something?

Thanks for any help.

Adam

[fx23]

you can pick some clip in arrange, press tab and move it tp session view.

Note they are (sadly, not to say silly) not 1:1 compatible, some automations made in arrange won't work in session view,
you'll have to copy paste each curve manually if so.

[adamdegraff]

Very strange. Not sure I really understand the reasoning here yet.

[fx23]

well, a long time ago, they ve chosen a strange concept. rather than making clips being the same in session and arrange,
(as their logo suggest we could freely tab horizontal and vertical)
clips in session got modulations that act in a relative manner to some absolute automations that exist only in arrangement.

this is completely silly has it's the cause we can't rec automation in session view since day one, and also can't transparent move session_arrange. there should have been booth layer of modulations and automations in session and arrange for that, so clips would have been 1:1 compatible as logic suggest. but that's a long story, requested from nearly a decade now...

[adamdegraff]

Ok, well here's a question then.

I am laying out backing tracks for a live performance as we talked about yesterday. During the performance, I want the tempo to accelerate starting at a certain spot and then go back to the original tempo. I'll be playing live, but I want my drums and synth and bass to get faster, then slow down. If I play it into ableton with my violin, and record it, where should I do that? Session or arrange? Then, I want to automate the tempo change by just listening to what I played and tap along with it for the tempo changes. (Session or arrange for that?) Then I should just be able to lay down bass and drum loops and they would match up if quantized to the grid, right?

When all is said and done, I want to perform from the Session mode so I can easily choose which scene (song) I want. Each scene will be it's own song with it's own backing tracks, all synced up. So far I was recording those in Logic since I'm used to it, but maybe I can do it all here? I'm really torn. I want LIVE automation ability, but I'm having a terrible time learning this new program. It's so different than Logic.

What is the easiest and best way to do this?

Thanks!!

[hacktheplanet]

Arrange:
Modulate tempo control.

Session:
Use scenes. If you change the name of a scene to "125 bpm" for example, the tempo will change to 125. If it's only for a certain part of the song, use follow actions to automatically trigger the next scene. Or just map a MIDI button to "play next scene."

[fx23]

edit: crosspost
Live is not complex to learn, i would say by far the most simple and easy daw.
It's normal you fight on first days, but don't worry it won't take you long to make the tour.

for the Bpm stuff, you should do this in arrange. in session view you can specify a BPM per scene simply renaming it ie 120 BPM, but you cannot make a slow down/UP ramp automation driven by a clip.
but in arrange , you can right clic on tempo field and show/edit automation.

a workaround to use in session is using a clip that emmit midi and remote tempo with virtual cables but i think you might
stick in arrange for now..

[www.midischool.com]

Hi Adam,

Hope I can shed some light on this for you...

Clips in Session view exist outside of any order scheme - musical ideas can be triggered in any order and at any time (Launch quantisations permitting). This is the view you would use during live performance or during the collation of ideas before recording an arrangement.

An arrangement in Arrangement view is a pre-determined playback scheme of Clips, which follows a musical timeline. As you have discovered, an arrangement can be created by recording your Session view exploits, or by simply dragging and dropping Clips from Session view into Arrangement view. Get hold of your Clip with the mouse, hit tab to move over to Arrangement view, and drop the Clip (ensuring you drop it in the same track as it was in in the Session view). An arrangement can be rendered to an audio file which you can then burn to CD or bosh on your iPod etc.

The tracks that are present in Session view, are the exact same tracks as you will find in Arrangement view. They are also linked - if you move the track fader in Session, it will also move in Arrangement by the same amount etc. Just like you can't have 2 Clips playing from any track simultaneously, you can't have a Clip playing in Arrangement view, and one from the same track in Session view playing at the same time - hence the 'Back to arrangement' button.

They aren't different views of the same thing as such, and therefore you would want to toggle between them for lots of different reasons:
- As I mentioned before, you can transfer Clips from Session to Arrange with the mouse, building up a song Clip by Clip (or Scene by Scene etc.) like Lego.
- As fx23 said, you can also do the reverse: I use Arrangement view to chop/rearrange/stutter drum loop Clips, before sticking the bits back together and transporting them back to Session view by dragging and dropping with the mouse. Click the Clip title bar to transport the whole Clip into Session view.
- During the mixdown part of music writing, some people prefer to look at the Session view mixer, which, even though they are essentially exactly the same thing is more graphic (prettier!) than the Arrangment mixer. Hence you will be tweaking the structure of your tune in Arrangement, and switching to Session to monitor volume levels, sends etc.

As a general rule of thumb when I'm writing a piece of music, I'll start in Session view - creating, collecting and jamming out music ideas. I'll then record a rough outline into Arrangement view using the method you talked about. Finally, I'll spend the majority of the rest of my time tweaking structure and adding FX/automation in Arrangement view before rendering my finished piece.

I've just finished writing a 12 week Ableton Live online course which might be of use to you - check out the link in my signature to watch a couple of vids on it.

Anyway, let me know how you get on, you can contact me either via these boards or through our school's website.

All the best,

Tom.

[adamdegraff]

Hi Adam,

Hope I can shed some light on this for you...

Clips in Session view exist outside of any order scheme - musical ideas can be triggered in any order and at any time (Launch quantisations permitting). This is the view you would use during live performance or during the collation of ideas before recording an arrangement.

An arrangement in Arrangement view is a pre-determined playback scheme of Clips, which follows a musical timeline. As you have discovered, an arrangement can be created by recording your Session view exploits, or by simply dragging and dropping Clips from Session view into Arrangement view. Get hold of your Clip with the mouse, hit tab to move over to Arrangement view, and drop the Clip (ensuring you drop it in the same track as it was in in the Session view). An arrangement can be rendered to an audio file which you can then burn to CD or bosh on your iPod etc.

The tracks that are present in Session view, are the exact same tracks as you will find in Arrangement view. They are also linked - if you move the track fader in Session, it will also move in Arrangement by the same amount etc. Just like you can't have 2 Clips playing from any track simultaneously, you can't have a Clip playing in Arrangement view, and one from the same track in Session view playing at the same time - hence the 'Back to arrangement' button.

They aren't different views of the same thing as such, and therefore you would want to toggle between them for lots of different reasons:
- As I mentioned before, you can transfer Clips from Session to Arrange with the mouse, building up a song Clip by Clip (or Scene by Scene etc.) like Lego.
- As fx23 said, you can also do the reverse: I use Arrangement view to chop/rearrange/stutter drum loop Clips, before sticking the bits back together and transporting them back to Session view by dragging and dropping with the mouse. Click the Clip title bar to transport the whole Clip into Session view.
- During the mixdown part of music writing, some people prefer to look at the Session view mixer, which, even though they are essentially exactly the same thing is more graphic (prettier!) than the Arrangment mixer. Hence you will be tweaking the structure of your tune in Arrangement, and switching to Session to monitor volume levels, sends etc.

As a general rule of thumb when I'm writing a piece of music, I'll start in Session view - creating, collecting and jamming out music ideas. I'll then record a rough outline into Arrangement view using the method you talked about. Finally, I'll spend the majority of the rest of my time tweaking structure and adding FX/automation in Arrangement view before rendering my finished piece.

I've just finished writing a 12 week Ableton Live online course which might be of use to you - check out the link in my signature to watch a couple of vids on it.

Anyway, let me know how you get on, you can contact me either via these boards or through our school's website.

All the best,

Tom.

Tom,
thanks for this great post. I'm wondering if you would care to comment on something. I'm not sure if I want to work in Ableton or in Logic. Based on your website, I think you might be the person to help me figure this out. I'm more experienced in Logic, and, if I'm going to be performing live in Arrange view, I'd just as soon do so in Logic. (Is there an advantage to doing so in Ableton?) What interests me about ableton is the session view, but I'm not sure what I'm doing is very conducive to session view. I've been working in Mainstage, which seems pretty much ideal for what I'm doing, but it doesn't have a sequencer, which means nothing can be automated. (Do I really need a sequencer? I don't know. Maybe.) Which... leads me back to either Logic or Ableton. And if session view is not meant for what I'm doing, then I'm thinking that I should just go back to the land of Logic. My musical structures are basically set with some looping back, improvisation takes place on real instruments and lives within set amounts of time (which can be looped back if so desired.) I'd love to automate things like my mic going hot, then back to muted at certain points. Maybe integrate a sequenced light show at some point? But I'm just not sure where to plant my roots. Any suggestions?

[www.midischool.com]

Hi Adam,

Glad to be of assistance!

I'd steer clear of performing in Arrangement view, it's not designed for performance really. I suppose it is possible to fundamentally perform using markers to map out the start of each song contained in your performance, but Session view is designed for live performance and hence far more suited.

I've never used Mainstage, so I can't comment on that. I used to use Logic for music writing, but as soon as I got a copy of Live, I haven't used it as much. In Live, you've got the sequencing and the performing tools in one place, and therefore it's very easy to turn an arrangement into a live performance and vise-versa.

Automation in Session view can be done using Clip envelopes, you can also automate the launching of Clips using follow actions. During a performance in Session view, you wouldn't generally have anything at all (Clips, automation envelopes) programmed into Arrangement view.

I see you're on a Mac - this will make integrating a light show/video performance etc at a later date a lot easier due to the Mac's IAC driver. You can route MIDI signals from Live to another program on the same Mac (ie Resolume Avenue). Hence, for example, when you launch a scene in Live, it will trigger something within the other program.

Let me know if this answers your questions mate!

[Goddard]

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155053