MIDI Sync - need insight regarding hardware solutions

[Donnie]

I am looking for a little insight regarding MIDI sync and hardware solutions, and not just the typical "whats the best way to sync" or "how do I do it" questions. Currently we have a 2 computer act, soon to be 3 with a video machine, and are looking for a solid MIDI sync solution. Right now we sync with WAC Network MIDI over an ethernet cable and most of the time it works great. However we are looking for a little back up plan for the occasional issues, like for instance when the master computer has some sort of problem and messes up the sync. I have read of some using the MOTU MTP AV (http://www.motu.com/products/midi/mtpav_usb) with some success, and we are thinking about picking one up, but I have a few questions first:

• Our main concern is maintaining sync when problems occur. I have read that this device will allow sync to continue even if the master goes down. What is it specifically about this device allows the sync to continue in this situation? How do other hardware units compare? Is there anything cheaper and/or more accessible out there that will suit our needs? (maybe even something with a smaller footprint)

• We change BPM constantly throughout our set, and although the Ethernet connection isn’t perfect it seems to work well enough for our needs. Since I know most sync at a constant BPM, will an external device cause any unexpected issues with changing tempos? As an FYI, currently we manually change tempo on the master computer to control the whole act with a knob on my BCR2000 sweeping from 90 BPM to 180 BPM as needed. We also do the occasional automated tempo change.

• If the master looses sync, and I need to restart Ableton or something like that on the master machine, how hard will it be to resync and take control with the master machine again with the MOTU? What should I expect, is it going to be tricky or relatively easy? Especially considering the fact that I need constant access to a BPM knob in order to change tempos.

[Donnie]

Title changed to better reflect the questions. Hopefully someone around here has some experience with a similar setup

[Donnie]

It's okay, don't be shy

Main questions if I purchase the MOTU, for anyone who has experience with it (especially with Live):

1) If one of the machines goes down or gets flaky, with the main computer connected to MOTU via USB, how well does that work in maintaining sync and how hard will it be to resync back up?
2) BPM changing, using the USB connection will my computer still be the master or will I need to setup and change BPM through the MOTU as a master?

[broc]

I don't have the MOTU, but according to the specs its sync features are based on MTC.
Be aware that MTC does *not* handle tempo information - in contrast to MIDI beat clock.

[ddr400]

You can look to cynq-lock or sync-lock at http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... 20Pro.html
This device provide stable midi clock from your DAW.

[Donnie]

I don't have the MOTU, but according to the specs its sync features are based on MTC.
Be aware that MTC does *not* handle tempo information - in contrast to MIDI beat clock.

Hmmm I figured with the laundry list of things it could do surely it could handle MIDI beat clock. I'm going to have to look into it further but at first glance it appears you are right.

The innerclocksystems gear seems to have some promise, a little pricey, but if this project keeps going like it is then it may be worth it.

[Donnie]

Anyone else care to offer any insight before this thread dies? Im not quite satisfied with it yet

[TrOoLos]

Great posting same questions here.

Setup so far:

First situation:
- 2 macbooks pro (one with an M-Audio interface (I think it was the fasttrack pro) and one with the Motu Ultralite Mk3)
- 1 PC laptop (with some cheapo audio interface).
Sync done by using Wac2Midi by using a wireless network. Results: Lost sync several times.

New situation:
- 3 macbooks pro. We keep up using the Motu Ultralite Mk3 and are now in the process of buying 2 new audio interfaces. We can sync by using a wired network connection (by using Apple's default "Midi Network" option. I think by using 3 Macbooks and if we buy the same motu's it will be stable.
I read on the motu site the following: http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ ... clock.html
1)Anyone familiar with this Direct Digital Synthesis™ clock option?

2) Also does anybody have experience by using: http://nerds.de/en/ipmidi_osx.html instead of the default Apple Network midi option? Is it faster/more stable?
3) What about sync through the midi out of the motu into the midi in's of the other motu's? Will this be more accurate/stable then Aplle's Network midi option?
4) And indeed what if the master macbook goes down? Good question: are there backup options available?
Anyone experience with this "sync-gen II-pro" (seems to ship in june 2011, costs: 600 euro): http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... 20Pro.html

Any ideas/comments are welcome!
Thanks

[Donnie]

In regards to the first situation....for us using WAC Network MIDI across platforms works great with a wired connection. We can use combinations of pcs and macs, as many as we need, and it works well. Wireless sync is a big no-no though, it never seems to be consistent unless its set up perfect.

[chapelier fou]

i am tired right now but what i can say is, when you lose the sync, no way to sync again.

[MC_80]

Ok, the new situation of TrOoLos and me is:

1x MacBook Pro with Motu Ultralite MK3, APC20 and iPad for effects
1x MacBook Pro with Motu Ultralite MK3, APC40 and MPD32
1x iMac with Motu Ultralite MK3, APC40
And one Korg Koassilator

All wrapped up with a Alesis HD24 hard disc recorder

The midi sync, via wired network, runs very stable!
Just a fine tune the first time for the small latency.

Photo will be posted shortly..