APC40 vs. iPad

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Cool Character
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by Cool Character » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:27 pm

perplex wrote:But for right now, its only right that physical control's are more preferred -- nobody likes change!
Oh boy, here we go again!

Also, Star Trek has gotten a lot wrong. We get too much information from our sense of touch for it to become obsolete.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:15 am

Oh my.

Well. For me the iPad has replaced every hardware controller and hardware synth that I used to drag around to performances and use for recording. With my primary focus on playing the Stick and guitar, I was always looking for just one piece of kit..and the iPad came along and fit the bill almost immediately. I don't miss the tactile interface of my hardware, because my primary tactile interface are my fucking strings, lol. But in no way am I saying that touch should replace hardware. For me, it was the way forward in order to streamline my entire process.

The title of this thread is really the issue, because it's stupid to set it up as a strict choice. Not only that, but just thinking of the iPad as a 'controller substitute' is really a shortsighted view.

Standard Controller
If tactile is your thing, then yeah...you're shit out of luck. But even if you want tactile AND wouldn't dream of anything else, there's still a place for the iPad. With the amazing touchAble app, you can quite simply get to nearly every single parameter in your Live set in seconds AND get far more visual feedback than what an APC can give you (or any other piece of hardware). You also have an extra set of drumpads or keys immediately at your disposal - as well as XYZ pads with fun physics options. Adjust track volumes and pans and whatnot with the APC, then reach over and tweak some macro parameters with touchAble - using 5 fingers at the same time, lol.

iPad as a new instrument.
There's a few bits of software out there that will allow you an unparalleled level of control and spontaneous magic over your synths or FX that NO piece of tactile hardware will give you. Konkrete Performer is an excellent example of an iPad app that will let you control 8 macros at one time using as many fingers as you've got. The combination of which will lead you to sonic discoveries that, quite simply, you'll not achieve WITHOUT a touchscreen. Something like KapturePad offers the same unique performing experience - giving you fantastic new possibilities that an APC or anything of it's kind simply cannot match. This isn't an opinion or fanboy nonsense. This is fact. If you don't agree, then you clearly haven't used them.

It also has more to do with the apps than the iPad *gasp*. Xoom or any other tablet product will - at some point if they all get their MIDI and audio shit together - offer the same experience.

iPad as softsynth replacement
The last point to mention is that iPad apps like the amazing iMS-20 fucking ROCK, and offer as good a sound and playing experience as any softsynth. There are many, many great synth apps now and one benefit is that they keep valuable CPU power free for other things like plugs and whatnot.

So there you go. :x
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perplex
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by perplex » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:06 am

^^ very very well said LoopStationZebra...
It also has more to do with the apps than the iPad *gasp*. Xoom or any other tablet product will - at some point if they all get their MIDI and audio shit together - offer the same experience.
^exactly wtf i was trying to say also...

synnack
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by synnack » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:22 am

Tone Deft wrote: the one thing iPad control has over tactile controllers is the way WiFi smooths the controller data making Live sound MUCH warmer.
buhahaha.
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synnack
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by synnack » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:31 am

I use an APC40 but I am getting sick of flying to shows with it out of town. It's big and a total pain to go through security with it. Taking it in and out of my bag all the time i seem to lose the ends of the faders all. We use iPad too to control the video stuff. I'm thinking of going full on iPad. At least for out of town shows.

Much of the discussion about the feel of the APC40 over iPad seems centered around the "feel" of things but I will offer 2, more concrete, points:

1) I often like to put my finger on a pad, then at the right time, press it down. You can't do that with an iPad. If you put your finger on a pad on a touchscreen, you've already launched it.

2) Sweat. No one likes to admit this but me I guess. but when you're playing in hot clubs on a stage with hot lights, it's freaking hot. Your hands will get sweaty as shit. This absolutely effects how well touch screens work. If you are full of sweat, and its dripping off your head on to your iPad, have fun trying to turn a virtual knob. Want to dry it off during a show? Try wiping it without also hitting all the buttons.
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by LoopStationZebra » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:46 am

tempus3r wrote:1) I often like to put my finger on a pad, then at the right time, press it down. You can't do that with an iPad. If you put your finger on a pad on a touchscreen, you've already launched it.
Yes, an excellent point. Though I suspect a prefs setting could be enabled in any app whereby the button is trigged upon release. Not the same thing as the tactile feel, sure, but..

2) Sweat. No one likes to admit this but me I guess. but when you're playing in hot clubs on a stage with hot lights, it's freaking hot. Your hands will get sweaty as shit. This absolutely effects how well touch screens work. If you are full of sweat, and its dripping off your head on to your iPad, have fun trying to turn a virtual knob. Want to dry it off during a show? Try wiping it without also hitting all the buttons.
This is where you hire a HOT chick to mop your brow and wipe your hands upon demand.

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Sibanger
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by Sibanger » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:07 am

If you spill a beer on an APC-40, I'm guessing it will fuck it, but if you spill beer on an iPad, it will simply run off its smooth glassy surface :roll:
( If you quickly pick it up and give it a good shake after you hit the drunk idiot for spilling beer all over your precious iPad )

I have not tried this with my iPad, and I don't advise anyone to tip beer on their iPad because it is a waste of good beer...

roozy
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by roozy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:57 am

tempus3r wrote:2) Sweat. No one likes to admit this but me I guess. but when you're playing in hot clubs on a stage with hot lights, it's freaking hot. Your hands will get sweaty as shit. This absolutely effects how well touch screens work. If you are full of sweat, and its dripping off your head on to your iPad, have fun trying to turn a virtual knob. Want to dry it off during a show? Try wiping it without also hitting all the buttons.
loling for 10 minutes :lol:

23kon
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by 23kon » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:29 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:This is where you hire a HOT chick to mop your brow and wipe your hands upon demand.
Also .... iPads are going to attract even hotter chicks!
and the more iPads you have .... the more hot chicks you'll have!

Girls aint going to swoon over an APC. Everyone knows that girls don't like guys with small knobs!!!

H20nly
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by H20nly » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:41 pm

23kon wrote:
LoopStationZebra wrote:This is where you hire a HOT chick to mop your brow and wipe your hands upon demand.
Also .... Pads are going to protect even hotter clits!
and the more Pads you have .... the more hot clits you'll have covered!

Girls aint going to swoon over an APC. Everyone knows that girls don't like guys with small wallets!!!
fixed.

Piplodocus
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by Piplodocus » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:36 am

tempus3r wrote: 1) I often like to put my finger on a pad, then at the right time, press it down. You can't do that with an iPad. If you put your finger on a pad on a touchscreen, you've already launched it.

2) Sweat. No one likes to admit this but me I guess. but when you're playing in hot clubs on a stage with hot lights, it's freaking hot. Your hands will get sweaty as shit. This absolutely effects how well touch screens work. If you are full of sweat, and its dripping off your head on to your iPad, have fun trying to turn a virtual knob. Want to dry it off during a show? Try wiping it without also hitting all the buttons.
That's pretty much why I would go for one. If my masterplan finally comes to fruition I shall be pressing buttons on a foot controller, whilst playing guitar, trying to sing, and in between grab knobs and hit keys. I wanna be able to see it in bad lighting from any angle and make stuff happen even if I'm falling over and forgetting the words to the song. I've ordered an APC40 and should get it tomorrow.

To be honest I hadn't really considered the iPad, just that I wanted real knobs as well as clip launch, so the APC40 seemed the only real solution (with Launchpad and APC being knob-less, or having to change values with changing page and sliding up buttons). If the iPad works for you then well done, you've got a great electronic web browser/reader/email/photo/game/facebook/app thing out of it too for not that much more cash! Generally I write to the limits of a live disaster. It adds to the excitement! :D

djwack
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by djwack » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:48 pm

You can't really compare the two IMO.

Say what you will about the iDevices, and about their "learning curve", but I beg to differ. Just using a "crossfader" for basic DJ juggling is a pain, doing lightning fast fader cuts is practically impossible.

Now, I did manage to learn to scratch a bit with the Flare app after practicing for about a week or so, but in the end I found it to be too unreliable (the touchscreen didn't register a gesture/swipe/etc 100% all the time) for my taste. Add that "sweaty hands" problem to the equation and you've got a trainwreck waiting to happen IMVHO.

I remember the feeling when I fumbled up with the iDevice, and accidentally triggered a wrong button or messed up a fader move - it felt f*cking humiliating.. I'll never want to risk that in a live situation myself.

And "iPad gets u teh Ch1xx" argument..? Hey cmon its not 2010 anymore.. the novelty's gone.

But you should use the 'pad for what it excels at - the combination of wifi, multitouch controls and the accelerometer definately has its place for doing creative things. But for replacing the crossfader? Good luck with that..

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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by LoopStationZebra » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:18 pm

I don't recall any Lemur fanboys complaining about sweaty hands. ffs. :lol:

Nor do I recall Lemur Haters complaining about sweaty hands. ffs. :lol:

:x
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by LoopStationZebra » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:21 pm

"I've just spent $2500 on a Lemur but me sweaty hands are ruining the experience!!!"

Q. Did the Lemur have a special anti-sweat screen?

lol.
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But stayed for the :x

djwack
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Re: APC40 vs. iPad

Post by djwack » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:37 pm

You make it sound like Lemur would somehow be superior to using an iPad..? To me, they both have the same challenges.. Actually, I might even prefer an iPad over the lemur as it lacks the accelerometer..

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