Motown Trick in Ableton Live?

[H20nly]

Now, I know what the problem is!

It was the 'Lookahead' parameter of the 'Feed Forward Model' at the Ableton Live compressor.
1ms Lookahead = 1 ms delay of the signal.

I put a 3rd party compressor in the same send as the Live compressor and just deactivate the Live compressor,
but the Lookahead (1ms) is ALWAYS active. No matter of activation/ deactivation of the compressor.

That's way the 3rd party compressor got a delay, too!

I guess it is a bug in the compressor, because if I deactivate a plug-in in a chain it shout not change the sound!

Update:

It is what it is.
There is a delay smaller than 1ms when I use a parallel compresson of a beat with a send compressor.
For transient sound you can hearing it.
It sounds not tight!

So, if you try it out the 'Motown Trick' or 'NY Drum FX' use a effect rack in the same channel.
It is not so flexible as a send fx, but it works.

cu,
Mr. Bit

i'm a little fuzzy on this because i wasn't paying attention in class (i rarely use plugs) but i believe there was a thread about the "PDC" (??)... there is a wrapper that goes around VSTs and that introduces delay.


i'll see if i can find it

[Angstrom]

most of the delay you might hear return tracks happens when

A: the returns have their sends activated
B: the returns are routed to an audio track rather than the master.


this is because those actions result in potential feedback loops, which are not possible to calculate PDC for.
So, doing either of these things will tell Live to automatically disable the PDC and thereby you will hear the inherrent plugins latency (delay) in your audio.
Don't do those things and you shouldn't get little delays on your returns.


this is not a bug,

this is not a bug

this is not a bug.

[H20nly]

^ there you go.

@Mr Bit - i did a forum search for "PDC" (Plugin Delay Compensation) with no particular author. There are several either about it directly or where it is mentioned.

http://forum.ableton.com/search.php?key ... mit=Search

hth.

[Mr. Bit]

you could just put a short delay on the 'dry' channel, something like voxengo sound delay (freeware), which you can specify samples for the delay. Will delay everything a little bit but hopefully you can line them up.

Thanks for the hint, man.

But I got it now.
I made some adjustments of the amplitudes and copy the same compressor preset from my 'insert' compressor to the send compressor.
VERY IMPORTANT - no other plug-in in one of this channels.

Now both mixes are tight! No delay between the channels and the transient design sounds very good.

A heavy compression but not a pumping.

[Mr. Bit]

most of the delay you might hear return tracks happens when

A: the returns have their sends activated
B: the returns are routed to an audio track rather than the master.


this is because those actions result in potential feedback loops, which are not possible to calculate PDC for.
So, doing either of these things will tell Live to automatically disable the PDC and thereby you will hear the inherrent plugins latency (delay) in your audio.
Don't do those things and you shouldn't get little delays on your returns.


this is not a bug,

this is not a bug

this is not a bug.

I don't know exactly what it was, but not A or B.

[Mr. Bit]

Ok, I could reconstruct the behaviour.
In this Demoloop you can hear the
1st - the original loop with the send compressor
2nd - the original loop with the compressor inside an effect rack

http://snd.sc/pD2gJu

[theophilus]

you could take a look at the supplied ableton racks that do this, there is 'brooklyn compression' in the audio effects rack/dynamics folder, as well as one session drums preset, 'Kit-DirectNatural-Stick-FX(CompressorNetwork' that does this, though I haven't played with either one that much. maybe they also exhibit the effect.
if not, maybe you could use them as a reference.

[Mr. Bit]

you could take a look at the supplied ableton racks that do this, there is 'brooklyn compression' in the audio effects rack/dynamics folder, as well as one session drums preset, 'Kit-DirectNatural-Stick-FX(CompressorNetwork' that does this, though I haven't played with either one that much. maybe they also exhibit the effect.
if not, maybe you could use them as a reference.

Thanks!

But I found the bastard it was a Reaktor patch in my standard Live setup.

It seems, that the delay compensation works not correct between Reaktor and Live.

THANK YOU ALL for the help and input.
I make my own Live rack were you can switch between normal compression and parallel compression.

Have fun - make more music!