Dj Dj Dj Dj Dj

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:33 pm

ok so not too long ago i started a thread regarding djing vs. remixing and the definition of the two, alot of folks were saying that djing didn't have anything to do with skill and that it was in fact about 'track selection' and alot of statements flew around like ' as long as the kids are shakin their asses it doesn't matter how the dj is performing and whatnot'..... I humbly disagreed and still think that skill is what defines a dj, however... now that Live 5 has come I see alot of post that are harping on the fact that Live 5 will take the skill of the dj out of the equation.
what happen to all of those folks who said it was all about track selection, and metaphoricly speaking, why are you crying now?

suburbanbather · Post by **suburbanbather** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:35 pm

Here we go again

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:37 pm

Dick Jerkin' is all about skill

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:43 pm

It's all about rubbing the wax the right way

suburbanbather · Post by **suburbanbather** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:50 pm

Louz, settle down before you hurt yourself.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:55 pm

nah skills still rule for tables

the problem is to may dj's on the wheels can't mix for crap

i'm enjoying live 5 and its implementations
and i'm sure ill mix out others music with it
BUT

you can't beat the feeling of the tight-rope ride throwing down on the wheels of steel!!!
mixing 3 decks...i like to take beat juggleing to techno and house music!

hopefully all the sukka dj's will give up the tables!!

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:00 pm

mike holiday wrote:nah skills still rule for tables

the problem is to may dj's on the wheels can't mix for crap

hopefully all the sukka dj's will give up the tables!!

my sentiments exactly

Burt · Post by **Burt** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:01 pm

"I humbly disagreed and still think that skill is what defines a dj"

no, no, no, no, no...

Larry Levan & Ron Hardy were arguable the most influential and brilliant DJ's to have ever lived - neither could be said to have had great 'skills'... both pre-dated Ableton ideas by preparing re-edits/remixes on reel to reel which they tried out at clubs...

its no big deal - really... those who couldn't beatmatch can now of course mix perfectly with Ableton but that in itself does not mean anything and is the very least important part of what makes a great DJ... and it will make DJ's raise their game - they will have to take more risks with exciting track selection rather than boringly play stuff that is geared towards fast beat-matching or skills...

Ableton is hopefully reversing that awful trend that began in the early 90's when many rock/pop fans got into dance music for the first time but still brought with them the 'indie-rock concert' mentality that requires them to 'watch' somebody perform rather than turning in towards the dance floor and just listening to the music...

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:01 pm

louZ wrote:Dick Jerkin' is all about skill

wasn't tryin ta hurt any feelings, just have a discussion

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:24 pm

There's definately something magic that happens when two or three tunes are mixed well off vinyl, it's when things start to drift ever so slightly.

I love to hear good techno mixed well, by that i mean a dj who really plays, not just fading one into another but really taking risks. Maybe two tunes that don't really go together that easily cos one record is an old one where the timing drifts all over the place, the dj having to constantly ride it to keep everything 'in'.

Thats the real point actually, the bits that are 'out' that still unintenionally work are imho where a lot of the magic lies, and thats what worries me about the 'mixing the winamp playlist, look at me i can successfully blend two of my mp3s together' brigade. Its too clean, too easy.

Creating something totally new using this technology is a different matter, I'm personally hoping that by making mp3 blending and warping this ridiculously, gobsmackingly easy, Ableton will raise the bar and encourage something REALLY new and exciting.

These are just my opinions mind, I'm not a dj, Ableton Live is, for me, the greatest sampler ever created. Also the best way to get your actual hands onto computer generated software in order to create and perform original material. I am a huge fan of and have the pleasure of knowing a lot of extremely good djs, it'll take some really impressive, exciting, spontanious and spiritually moving mp3 sets to convince me it's the future. I've yet to hear one that didn't sound blocky, contrived and lifeless, it's not that I'm not listening either, Ableton mixes are very noticable.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off here, building dj sets in Live is a skill in itself, not that I've personally tried, but that just makes me part of the audience and therefore qualified as a critic in some ways.

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:30 pm

::mic-minimal:: wrote:
louZ wrote:Dick Jerkin' is all about skill
wasn't tryin ta hurt any feelings, just have a discussion

yeah sorry, i'm a little touchy when it comes to my DJ skillz

Louz, settle down before you hurt yourself.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:41 pm

Dj's that only spin vinyl and CD's (Dan, Carl Cox) are proving to the world you can still blow up way hard with vinyl

while Sasha who's big in his own way is trying to progress with Ableton

personally I like them both - yes there is something awesome and fun and rewarding and just plain dope about keeping one hand on the pitch and the other on the mixer

but

there's something really cool and massively unreal about djing with my computer -

I don't know

whatever I prefer them both - but vinyl is really starting to feel bulky however it's just so cool

Burt · Post by **Burt** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:05 am

There's definately something magic that happens when two or three tunes are mixed well off vinyl

the magic should be in the music being played - not the format being used...

it's when things start to drift ever so slightly

there is nothing 'magical' about a mix going slightly out of sync...

Maybe two tunes that don't really go together

Live is much more flexible for playing odd track combinations than vinyl - and it has the potential to sound better as you can mix odd tracks but keep them in key, etc so they blend better.

I love to hear good techno mixed well, by that i mean a dj who really plays, not just fading one into another but really taking risks

yes, me too - but history has proved this not to be very common...in techno a heavy focus on beat-matching skills led mostly to the demand for simple easy to mix 'loopy bangers' rather than rhythmically varied and 'risky' tracks...

Creating something totally new using this technology is a different matter

yes, that is quite obvious... Dj sets which combine a little of the traditional 2 deck approach with plug-in effects, re-arranging and adding various loops, using custom midi controllers, etc is what it's really all about... and I wouldn;t use mp3's myself... 24bit self-mastered files are where its at...

look at me i can successfully blend two of my mp3s together' brigade

that is not much different from a 'look at me I can beat-match 2 vinyl records together brigade' - it really is the least important part of what makes a good DJ...

I've yet to hear one that didn't sound blocky, contrived and lifeless

a good Ableton set should be the opposite of contrived... with the beat-matching element removed the DJ has no 'skills' to hide behind or mask a boring or predictable selection... I'm surprised you haven't heard any good Ableton sets - although it is tricky... a whole different skill set... it leaves you feeling exposed as you have so much more time to be creative... then you try and fill that time and it quickly becomes VERY challenging... but I've always had amazing responses to my Ableton sets and there are a few names who are becoming reknown for mind-blowing Ableton sets... its not perfect yet but with the v5 improvements its getting there...

I love a good vinyl DJ set - but right now for me, in 2005 it seems Ableton type expanded sets are where the excitement is...

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:07 am

haha, adonis, I really dig the illustrations.

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:34 am

From the tips n' tricks section (posted by me less than an hour ago):

DJ Chim-Chim wrote:"ChimChim put song in session view. Chim-Chim push play. Chim-Chim put in new song. Chim-Chim push play again. Chim-Chim slide fader. Chim-Chim do this many times. Chim-Chim like mp3. Live figure out tempo. Chim-Chim big hero."

As said in sign language by a trained chimpanzee who's currently DJing with the Live 5 Beta.

Welcome to the future people. I don't think you can dumb down DJing any further.
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