Achieving Rave-type effect to standard loops

[MrJim65]

Hi,
I've been learning to record loops on the fly using this method:-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwywxD4lDE
I'm using my guitar synth and doing lots of seventies type funk things which is hugely enjoyable however gets a little predictable after a while. Soooo I was thinking it'd be really great if I could get some of my scenes to go into a whole different genre from time to time:-a bit like the way that Beardyman takes something and turns it into rave/dubstep/drumnbass type stuff.
I realise he uses a lot of other expensive equipment and using ableton alone I would't be able to achieve anything like the sort of sounds he does. However I'm thinking that are many experienced users of live on these boards who might have some advice on how if you have a scene playing a number of clips playing a standard funk tune/groove for example, to then using something within live to take that tune to a whole other place.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Jim

[Warrior Bob]

Could you post a link of Beardyman changing things up like that?

[MrJim65]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fC65sy9 ... ure=relmfu

This clip is fairly representative of what he does

[twisted-space]

2 Kaoss pads and sh*tloads of talent.

[owlmerlyn]

2 Kaoss pads and sh*tloads of talent.

ditto that, especially on the talent

[owlmerlyn]

@ MrJim

You can achieve a lot of very similar effects using Live's built in FX, specifically the filters in the eq units, and delays (and throw in some phasing etc). In terms of messing with loops hands-on, I think you'd benefit from a sampler, although recording to tracks and cutting up your material there could also work.

The key in all of this is controlling the parameters of your FX units with a midi controller so you can jam with the FX units twisting some knobs rather than using a mouse

[MrJim65]

Thanks for that owlmerlyn,
I've been looking at one of those novation remote zero controllers as that seems to have lots of scope for mapping specifically to ableton.
I checked those Kaoss pads out which also look amazing. I love the idea of setting up a standard kind of feel/melodic piece before putting it through the blender and making something really twisted though still connected to the original.
Since I posted the question yesterday I've been experimenting with/just discovered the crossfader and have found some good stuff there in that you can copy some of the stuff you've already done in a scene and put it into another track, do some weird f/x stuff to it and then mark as an A or B for the crossfader to be taken into the set when it becomes a bit predictable.
thanks for the replies:-any more advice very welcome

[owlmerlyn]

In terms of MIDI controllers you need to get advice from others who've played with bunch of them. I use the Korg NanoController for my hands-on stuff. I rate it, but can't compare it anything else cos thats all I have ever owned. Do you have a keyboard with some knobs and sliders...?

Whilst assigning FX parameters to the crossfader is a good start, there is a lot more you can do within Live. As an example, put one of the EQ units on a track and use Live to control the Low Pass filter by drawing in a random line in the control lane for that parameter (do you know how to do that?), you'll start getting a techno feel on that track

[MrJim65]

Thanks again:-not sure I know what you mean about the low pass filter-couldn't elaborate a bit could you?

[twisted-space]

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... ilit=kaoss

Free Kaoss type fx for live

[owlmerlyn]

Thanks again:-not sure I know what you mean about the low pass filter-couldn't elaborate a bit could you?

Sure thing. I'll explain a very basic set-up for you to begin with. It will give you a starting point that you can then apply to all types of effects.

I am not sure how to post pics, so will type this up first and then figure out the logistics of posting images to the forum in a later post

EFFECT SETUP
- On a midi or audio track that has some music on, insert an EQ8 Effect.
- By default it has 4 filters selected - de-select filters 1-3 and keep the fourth selected.
- on filter 4 turn the "Q" up to 2.5 and select the "high-cut" filter mode (at the bottom of the EQ8)
- Now you have set the EQ8 to be used as a low-pass filter (only letting frequencies below the filter come through)
- Play the music and use the mouse to change the frequency of the filter (the top knob on the left hand side of the EQ8)... you should start getting more interesting dynamics to the track

AUTOMATING THE EFFECT
- now, to programme Live to manipulate the effect for you, change to "Arrangement View"
- in the right hand column choose "EQ8" in the "Fades/Device Chooser" drop down box
- And then choose "4 Frequency A" in the "Automation Control Chooser" just below it
- Click "Draw Mode" on the pen icon (in the same set of tools where "play" and "stop" buttons are at the top-most bar in Live)
- The mouse icon should change to a pen when you mouse-over the track
- Now draw on the track - anything you draw is fine right now, even a higgeldy piggeldy random line, cos you're just testing the waters. At a later stage you can make it more musical.
- you can change the intervals at which you draw by right-clicking on the track and changing the setting under "fixed grid"
- play back the track and you will hear the filter work on the track and see the EQ8 filter move in time with what you have drawn.
- This is the basic method that many techno and electrinic artists use to mash up their sounds

Hope this all makes sense. Will post a screen cap shortly.

Also bear in mind that the EQ8 is not necessarily the best tool for the job, but practricing on it will teach you the method that you can then apply to other plug-ins. Also, once you have mastered this and you have bought yourself a midi controller, you can assign the EQ8 filter to a MIDI controller knob and do this all hands on and in real time. But that is next lesson

Ask away if you have any more questions

[owlmerlyn]

lets try this



I cant seem to get a pic uploaded to Picasa to appear here... will have to figure this out

[MrJim65]

Thats brilliant stuff there owlmerlyn! I'd never have discovered that low pass frequency thing left to my own devices:-no pun intended. Not sure why I have to go to arrangement view though as I can draw and edit these parameters in session view?
Thanks for taking the time out to write such a painstaking guide.
Also cheers for posting that link to the kaoss rack twisted-space. For some reason when I download it to my macbook and try to run the setupexe I get a text box with weird symbols and one intelligible sentence saying 'cannot run in dos mode.' Is this only for windows users as I didnt think macs have a dos mode?

[owlmerlyn]

MrJim, you are most welcome. Glad I could help out, and I hope it all made sense.

You are in fact correct, you dont really need to use the arrangement view, unless you want to automate a track over more than one clip.

As I mentioned,you can assign the filters (or any other parameter) to hardware midi controllers, which makes it all more fun Also, some of the filters in third party plug-ins sound different, so you should experiment.

How are the results thus far, you creating some wild sounds?

[MrJim65]

Yes owlmerlyn, getting lost in some real envelope madness. Also taking your advice about other editable parameters such as lives performance/dj f/x:-all the beat repeat type stuff yields surprising results. I come from a completely different musical perspective so it's really interesting for me to take what are quite traditional sounding grooves to somewhere I've never been before:-may be cliched for others but for me it's like having a couple of other really strange band members.
However it's clear that using a mouse is fairly limiting/slow and next on the agenda is a midi controller with fades and dials for some real time editing. Moving away from the novation remote sl towards the novation nocturn now as this seems simpler for a relative novice like myself.