MACBOOK PRO I7 LATENCY ABSURD PROBLEM

[anto]

hi, the fact:
- I own a 2010 macbook pro I7 (17" 8gb ram)
- I have problem with latency (I need the lowest latency possible)
- with a saffire pro40 I go at 128 samples about 10ms in+out, with a motu ultralite mk3 about 7m in+out (128 samples)

I try to change my card, and phone to a seller,
the seller told me about motu 8pre, he verified an incredible latency of less than 2ms in+out, with a macbook pro core2duo
The seller says about an incredible low latency of the motu 8pre, due to his tests the 8pre seems faster than the rme's......the fastest interface on the market(?!)
I dont' need 8 inputs, but I want this ultralow latency!
so I've got the motu 8pre
- when i've plug the 8pre on my macbook pro 7i, the delusion: 128samples 7.14ms in+out latency....bad!


- I've called my seller, to describe my delusion.......he tried a 8pre with a macbook i5 and he found the same 7.14ms!
about 400-450% more than macbook core2duo???????????????

what does it means?????
the only consequence of this fact is that macbook pro I7 (2010) are bad for daw pourpouses??????
can anyone explain????

moreover, the seller verify another point: in windows ambient with hi performance laptops the 8pre can arrive (128 samples) at 0.5+0.5 of total latency (!!!!!!!!!)


now I returned the motu 8pre, I wish to get the incredible low latency told me by the seller, but this was an illusion, maybe only in my case???........I'm goung to get an echo audiofire2, as I need only a guitar input, but I would understand if my high priced mac is a bad audio tool

another data: I don't think my seller is a liar (it could be an easy way to explain this trouble): he returned the card at his whole costs, and he's an experienced guy.

.....I hate latency!!!

[chapelier fou]

7 ms is awesome.
Is there any particular reason that it disturbs you ? Unless you are playing percussions very fast with real time treatment, i cannot believe you notice any delay.

[anto]

7 ms is awesome.
Is there any particular reason that it disturbs you ? Unless you are playing percussions very fast with real time treatment, i cannot believe you notice any delay.

I use it with a guitar, ableton+guitar rig+ about 4o plugins, trasform 7ms in an audible delay, so to start with a ultra low latency halps you to mantein realtime perfomances also with huge chains

[Palmer Eldritch]

moreover, the seller verify another point: in windows ambient with hi performance laptops the 8pre can arrive (128 samples) at 0.5+0.5 of total latency (!!!!!!!!!)

Hi anto, this is complete nonsense.

128 samples means there is a buffer of 128 samples for the input and 128 samples for the output. So there is at least a latency of 256 samples (input+output).
The duration of one sample (at 44,1 kHz) is 1/44,1 = 0,02267... ms. So, the duration of 256 samples is at least 0,02267... * 256 = 5,8049... ms at 44,1 khz (total latency).
Also with a samplerate of 96 kHz (and a buffer of 128) the total latency cannot be smaller than 1/96*256 = 2,66666... ms (1,333... for in and 1,333... for out) regardless of the power of the computer.
But, with a powerful computer and a good audio interface you might adjust the buffer to a smaller value than 128 samples (and therefor lower latency) without running in problems like audio glitches.

Also think about the extra latency introduced by the guitar rig and every further plug-in.

regards, palmer

[chapelier fou]

Yep, you're right, latency is
buffer size * 2 * (1/sampling rate) + latency introduced by the driver. If i am not mistaken.

[trevox]

Is it possible that the latency the seller referred to was for non-processed sound? I have a MOTU 896HD and there is pretty much zero latency when sending audio in and out of the sound card. However, if you modify the sound with effects etc in a DAW, then the latency does come into play. I would suggest that 7ms of latency is barely noticeable though - it certainly would not be off-putting when playing a guitar. So maybe there is another issue.

I did have a problem with my early 2011 MBP when triggering synths with an electronic drum kit. It was an odd one. I rebuilt the project from scratch and it worked without issue. I did not change the latency settings either (at 90 samples), so when I play the kit, I have a latency of 5ms or something which is completely acceptable. I'm afraid if you think that is unacceptable, you will be waiting a long time for an afforadable setup which is going to have latency under 1ms where you are processing the sound with plugins etc.

[anto]

some precisations:
- the freq of the was 44.1
- the tests were done all whit ableton
- the point of the question isn't if 7ms are percepible or not (and, for sure, if you use huge chain 7ms are too much), the poins are:
really motu 8pre can reach this ultra low latency with some machine?
really macbook pro I7 can be less performative than a macbook core2duo for daw applications?
yes, this is the main point: maybe my high cost computer is a bad daw tool????
(i wasn't able to find some infoormations on google, except this point: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/26 ... 0&tstart=0)

so it could be useful to recieve the feedback from some macbook pro I7 user and/or motu 8pre users....I mean:
A) have you a motu 8pre?
what is you computer?
what is your latency? (in+out, freq, samples)

B) have you a macbook pro I7 (dual core, 2010, or I5)
what is your sound interface?
what is your latency? (in+out, freq, samples)



@ Eldritch: yes some point of this question seems nonsense, I wrote this post for this reason:)

[Dragonbreath]

2.53ghz core duo macbook pro 2009

saffire pro 40

128 buffer
44100 sample rate

10.3 ms round trip

These people are right anything under 10 ms is very decent
Your plugins are probalby adding alot more latency then you sound card

[anto]

These people are right anything under 10 ms is very decent
Your plugins are probalby adding alot more latency then you sound card

sure, but a fastest interface is a way to use heavy weight plugins, the kay is to have a chart to compare interfaces,
this is my proposal:
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 1#p1330221

[anto]

moreover, th internal soundcard of my macbook pro have a latency of 7.46ms (128 samples, 44.1khz)
this means it's fast as motu 8pre and fastest than saffire pro40, so, if you need only a guitar input the internal mac soundcard is better than most of the expensive interfaces (maybe with a dy as i.e. motu zbox)

anyone could tell me if echo audiofire2 is faster (which is ofthen mentioned as a speed tool) than internal mac soundcard?

[Hermanus]

7ms is awesome man, you don't seem to realize it...

For live voices it's different, on my saffire pro24DSP I tend to use direct monitor for my singer at headphones at least, this way she's cool for singing.

Ok in your case if you want to apply some ableton live FX, you could try the delay compensation of the track [the D case in the bottom of the right corner of your screen in Live]

I do this for recording guimbarde, there's a latency but not unplayable at all.
Welcome in the DAW world and its inherent latency... you'll to make some choices and some compromises with what you want.

EDIT: One last thing your last post is a bit wrong!!!!!
For a tiny project with only your guitar track and maybe one or two more, you internal soundcard holds good.

Add more tracks, some instruments or lots of vst, you'll very soon see its limits, sound will glitch and pop.
There with big projects, you can efficiently compare with external interfaces

You Absolutely want no latency, then only choice: go for direct monitoring your guitar input
You have the saffire pro40, you can have lots of different mixes for every member of a band.
Click for drummer, returns for voice, anything

GO in the saffire mix control and set it right.

[anto]

7ms is awesome man, you don't seem to realize it...

For live voices it's different, on my saffire pro24DSP I tend to use direct monitor for my singer at headphones at least, this way she's cool for singing.

Ok in your case if you want to apply some ableton live FX, you could try the delay compensation of the track [the D case in the bottom of the right corner of your screen in Live]

I do this for recording guimbarde, there's a latency but not unplayable at all.
Welcome in the DAW world and its inherent latency... you'll to make some choices and some compromises with what you want

but 7ms is what you can do with internal mac soundcard, so, if you need only an input, why buy an interface maybe slower than mac internal card?
direct monitoring, yes, but if you use guitar with amp sims you can't do that
delay compensation? it can't became a truly time machine...

[Hermanus]

you have some ubber laptop and good external interface.

You have to take time to set everything right, that's it.

I would be lucky to have a macbook pro i7 and the saffire40, I would surely not pass my time on the forum finding a soluce but well take the time to truly set my system for my production sets.

It's always rewarding

why buy an interface maybe slower than mac internal card?

completely wrong here man, why would we spend such amount of money for sucking latency whores soundcards.

Come on wake up!

[anto]

you have some ubber laptop and good external interface.

You have to take time to set everything right, that's it.

I would be lucky to have a macbook pro i7 and the saffire40, I would surely not pass my time on the forum finding a soluce but well take the time to truly set my system for my production sets.

It's always rewarding

why buy an interface maybe slower than mac internal card?

completely wrong here man, why would we spend such amount of money for sucking latency whores soundcards.

Come on wake up!

maybe, but but I'm not wasting time in useless and unkind accusations without trying to understand the quesiton, so please, consider:
- macbooks have not to much to set up
- I need an audio input only to play minimal guitar parts in complex textures which requires a lot of hardware resources, so I need the lowest possuble latency
- if i put my guitar direct into my macbook I have, as I wrote, I've got 7.46ms of total latency (44.1, 128 samples)
- a lot of interfaces are slower than internal macbook soundcard

so, if you need only an audio input the question "why use an external interface if macbook internal soundcard goes faster" is a right question.

another question could be: what audio interfaces are fasters than internal macbook soundcard?

if could be good to have not unuseful and unkind reproaches, but reports of concrete personal experiences
i.e.
- a guy told me he has an audiofire 2 and in his experience this interface is a little bit slower than the internal mac hardware, so, if you have to use only an input you waste money (and latency) if you interface your guitar with an audiofire

similary
maybe apogee duet can run faster than macbook internal soundcard? how fast in your experience?
rme babyface can do the job?
If I could reach about 4ms of total latency instead of my 7.46 of internal mac soundcard i could consider to invest 500 euros.

maybe the only choice is rme firefaces?

please it could be useful to post experiences, reproaches are less useful

[Hermanus]

apologies if I was a bit rude.
not my intent.

from my experience, zero latency is almost impossible, but you can manage to have a nice result with minimal hearable latency.