NI Forums...

[starving student]

I don't think they'll keep battery in the end either, most of the people I know who use battery would rather it be a groovebox and it looks like maschine has got that covered for them, there's a bunch of people who either want battery to have maschine features or vice versa

[delicioso]

B4 wasn't a sample player. Closer to a physical modeling engine which is not unlike a dedicated wavetable synthesis concept, closer to a sampler than an analog synth maybe, but not a dedicated Kontact player wrapper....

B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5

All of those "discontinued" products still work today with the current OSes. And NI's past treatment of defunct products has shown that they generally maintain functionality in one form or another. B4 and Akoustic Pianos were essentially reincarnated as Kontakt soundpacks (Vintage Organs and the Piano series) and are now rolled into Komplete. Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.

[Machinesworking]

B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5.

Nothing, absolutely nothing in your link refutes anything I said. So the official word is they are close, great, nothing says Vintage organs is more powerful, less tone arms means more powerful?..... bleh.
Beyond that, what's your magic answer for 64 bit OS's and discontinued NI gear? How long do you think they'll update Kore for? My guess is Kore 64 bit will become dysfunctional after the second Lion update past introduction, and the first version of Windows 8, and no, buying a Percussion controller isn't a solution. Plus we've done this before....

[Silverfish]

Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.

Show me one Reaktor ensemble that even comes close.

[Press Enter]

There was (not available anymore) a commercial ensemble that was based on Spektral Delay. But even the blurb on that said it was only based on it, and in no way indicated it matched it's functionality much less superceded it.

But essentially I agree with Delicioso. Alot of premature belly aching on display here for products that still work, and in some cases were replaced, and in other cases the product just plain sucked.

People are upset about Kore being discontinued, so they're exaggerating everything else for the sake of leverage - painting NI as the evil empire etc. Stupid.

Also, NI only recently bought out a venture capitalist who had a large stake in the company. The, ahem, "slash & burn" ( ) policy may have been attributable to the money-men. Those who want to get all melodramatic about the company and every minutiae relating to it's activities would do well to keep that tidbit in their equations.


All this bluster for products that [a] still work sucked ?

Kore butthurt is butthurt.

[glitchrock-buddha]

B4 wasn't a sample player. Closer to a physical modeling engine which is not unlike a dedicated wavetable synthesis concept, closer to a sampler than an analog synth maybe, but not a dedicated Kontact player wrapper....

B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5

Where on Earth are you getting your information from? NI B4 did not use samples. It is a PHYSICAL MODELING organ. It shares nothing in common with Vintage Organs except the fact that they both sound like Organs. It was not repackaged in any way. Vintage Organs was recorded from Organs. B4 was completely synthesis. Vintage Organs is not more powerful either. You have more control over a physical modelling instrument. The sound quality is of course subjective and I'm sure there are preferences either way.

[condra]

I use the Massive forum now and then. People there are usually friendly and helpful.

[Angstrom]

Yep, B4 was physically modeled, while Vintage organs is a sample set.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov00/a ... native.htm

The Native Instruments B4 is a virtual instrument designed to emulate the classic sounds of the Hammond B3 organ via physical modelling rather than sampling.

I tend prefer the flexibility and sound of the B4 over the Vintage organs collection. I wish I didn't, it would be great if the Vintage Organs really was as good as B4, but it plainly isn't. Anytime I try it in a track it's far harder to work with, to integrate.

[Rationalizer]

Yeah, I don't like the NI forums at all. Well, tbh I've only participated in Maschine forum but there is this weird consensus going on that Maschine is something of a miracle tool and there's no room for (creative) critisism. That's my impression at least.

And about NI's customer service. It really does suck. When I bought Maschine I couldn't register it because the "Service Center" kept on telling that the license number was wrong. Took me many hours waiting on the phone to get hold of the support. Seems they forgot to make activate the serial So the support guy told me they are going to activate the serial in couple of hours. It took 3 days with several emails and phone calls to finally get Maschine working.

Now I've been waiting 8 days to get my Traktor Pro 2 license, which they promised to send me in 5 days. The payment was, of course, taken immediately. So yeah.

[Silverfish]

...and in other cases the product just plain sucked.

That, sir, is a matter of opinion.

People are upset about Kore being discontinued,

Maybe, but I'm more upset that updates are removing functionality. I've got a slew of updates waiting for me in the Service Center, and if I'm understanding correctly, any of those updates will break compatibility between Kore and that particular piece of software. I'd love to be wrong about this, btw.

Imagine if tomorrow Ableton announced an update of Live that no longer allowed the use of vsts, and their proposed solution was to buy Ableton Super Live, because that version has vst support. I imagine there would be lots of angry customers.

Bottom line, whether I bitch about it on a forum or not doesn't change the fact that I'm done with NI. In the five years I've been a customer, I've enjoyed using their products, but I'd be a fool to invest time and money into a product like Maschine. I know it's only a matter of time before they do to it like they did to Kore.

[Silverfish]

And, on a positive note, I've always found most of users on the NI forums quite helpful and friendly. Most of them...

[Press Enter]

Kore buttHZ



Just so long as we're honest about what's really bothering you, bitch away.
Btw - you might want to make sure you 'understand correctly'. Kore will still work with the NI suite of instruments, they just won't be updated in the koresound format. ergo the updated instruments will be treated like any other 3rd party VST.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't even own Kore.

[delicioso]

Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.

Show me one Reaktor ensemble that even comes close.

There are too many excellent Reaktor ensembles to mention them all. As for Spektral Delay, take a look at Prism FX ensemble and The Mouth for Vokator.

B4 wasn't a sample player. Closer to a physical modeling engine which is not unlike a dedicated wavetable synthesis concept, closer to a sampler than an analog synth maybe, but not a dedicated Kontact player wrapper....

B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5

Where on Earth are you getting your information from?

Check the link I posted where NI dev points out that B4 is not primarily modeling based.

NI B4 did not use samples.

Nope. B4 used samples for the tonewheels.

It shares nothing in common with Vintage Organs except the fact that they both sound like Organs. It was not repackaged in any way. Vintage Organs was recorded from Organs. B4 was completely synthesis.

Where on Earth are YOU getting your info from?

Here, I'll just paste the text from that link I posted since you didn't bother reading it:
"I just wanted to point out that B4 and Vintage Organs are technically much closer than many of you might think, because both draw on individual tonewheel samples to authentically simulate the sound. B4 was not primarily modelling-based, and neither is Vintage Organs based on conventional multi-samples."

[lethal_pizzle]

I've got a slew of updates waiting for me in the Service Center, and if I'm understanding correctly, any of those updates will break compatibility between Kore and that particular piece of software. I'd love to be wrong about this, btw.

I think you are, Kore will continue to load the last integrated version of the engines, even if you install newer VSTs. I don't own Kore so don't take my word as gospel.

I know it's only a matter of time before they do to it like they did to Kore.

Difference between Kore and Maschine is that Kore was a failed (twice!) product, and Maschine appears to be a runaway success.

I realise that Kore's failure was entirely down to NI; not a lot of people got was it was about. But I don't think what happened to Kore will happen to Maschine.

[delicioso]

I'd be a fool to invest time and money into a product like Maschine. I know it's only a matter of time before they do to it like they did to Kore.

Nope.

"Maschine has become one of the central products in the NI portfolio in record time, it has one of the biggest team of developers, designers and product managers behind it and a comprehensive roadmap ahead of it. The notion that it could be considered for discontinuation is just completely nonsensical.

To put some perspective on the hysteria that some people have been trying to whip up: Traktor and Kontakt have been in constant development for 10 years, and Reaktor has been maintained since 15 years now. There is no reason to believe that Maschine will not progress and grow further for at least the same amount of time."
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... stcount=36

And as mentioned before, discontinuing Kore was necessary for NI to move forward:
"Excluding Kore from the future roadmap gives the developers more time for all the other products, so in that sense it makes further discontinuations less likely in the first place."

"all other current products will continue to be developed for a long time to come, with absolutely no plans to the contrary. You can take that as an official word from me."
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... stcount=16