Dj Dj Dj Dj Dj

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:29 pm

mike holiday wrote:you can't beat the feeling of the tight-rope ride throwing down on the wheels of steel!!!
mixing 3 decks...i like to take beat juggleing to techno and house music!

hopefully all the sukka dj's will give up the tables!!

what you describe here is plate spinning. what is musical about that?

ok, i'm being slighty contetntious here as i've dj'd with three decks and have been mixing and djing since 92. i love vinyl and i love playing on decks but the truth of the matter is that djing is about selection and suitable editting etc. in this respect i much prefer using Live these days. (it also allows a greater breadth of music to be mixed, which is also something that appeals to me)

and burt, good comments esp. about Levan and Hardy.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:26 pm

robin wrote:
mike holiday wrote:you can't beat the feeling of the tight-rope ride throwing down on the wheels of steel!!!
mixing 3 decks...i like to take beat juggleing to techno and house music!

hopefully all the sukka dj's will give up the tables!!
what you describe here is plate spinning. what is musical about that?

ok, i'm being slighty contetntious here as i've dj'd with three decks and have been mixing and djing since 92. i love vinyl and i love playing on decks but the truth of the matter is that djing is about selection and suitable editting etc. in this respect i much prefer using Live these days. (it also allows a greater breadth of music to be mixed, which is also something that appeals to me)

and burt, good comments esp. about Levan and Hardy.

art is more then just music

i think live will be great mixing tool and would love to hear anybody useing it to their fullest potential

but i like to see/hear dj's to

really i'm on both sides of the fence here!!

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:45 pm

change up a little bit.

I hear alot of people regarding track selection as skill to be celebrated when reffering to djs such as sasha, tiesto, etc.. but when it comes to djs such as madlib who objectively I think have a definite skill in track selection get shitted on alot.... what do you think this is attributed to?

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:39 am

hmm what about Z-Trip he can play total absolute crap and make it fresh...britney spears what ever
plays EVERY genra of music from brilant to shit; past present and future, and makes it fresh

AND blows up the croud

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:00 am

yeah z-trip is one talented cat

DJ Padawan · Post by **DJ Padawan** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:40 am

I have given a lot of thought about how Ableton effects the Djing community. For those of you who know your history, Djing started out on an AM radio and a gramophone. The Disc Jockey was born. As technology evolved so did the DJ, not only was he introducing new music to a larger audience he was manipulating the music to fit a specific forum ie the dance floor. Now we find ourselves at another crossroad, the digital era. The tools have changed but the basic ideas are at it’s roots. Ableton is nothing more than a tool same as the DJ. If evolution was not part of our manifesto then we would all be playing records over a gramophone transmitting it over an AM frequency.

Djs are artist, this much we can all agree. But that is not the limit to his being. At his/her essence it the music. Jocking new tunes, collecting that hard to find track, being on the forefront of the music as a whole, and finally flavoring the music to deliver to the audience.

Ableton is without a doubt changing Djing and our definition of what it is. A skilled DJ uses the tool at his disposal to move his audience and influence them. If you simply use Ableton to blend one song to the next you are no more skilled than a wedding DJ. Likewise is said about someone using vinyl in the same way. When the pitchfader was developed for the turntable did that discredit the DJ and his skills, no that became a tool to improve the music and his format. Same with the invention of the crossfader, the multi-channel mixer, the CDJ etc...

Again we come to a crossroad. This technology is a gateway to new possibilities, bridging the gap between DJ and Producer. Those of us that push technology to it’s limits will be the ones impacting the future of music. And that my friends is what its all about.

Ofcourse that is just my perspective.

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:04 am

Burt wrote:
I'm surprised you haven't heard any good Ableton sets

I love a good vinyl DJ set - but right now for me, in 2005 it seems Ableton type expanded sets are where the excitement is...

Ive heard about five ableton sets in clubs and none of them were any good. Sounded rehearsed/sequenced/contrived/self indulgent. One performer was really annoying. Every few bars he would do some heavy EQ filtering or would be triggering suppatrigga. At one point I reckon he had at least four different musical loops going at the same time. Real messy. Obviously he hadnt Dj'ed on a set of decks in his life and had no idea how to entertain an audience.

Cant you just tell an ableton users set when you hear one. The sound is different and the mixes are ??????? Cant explain it really.

Tuur · Post by **Tuur** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:00 am

The problem with most FX is that a lot of DJ's I know use them far too often.

It started with those Pioneer mixers. Very annoying IMHO.

hbot · Post by **hbot** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:48 pm

Hey all,

thought I would share my solution to a problem I've seen a number of people write about on this board. The problem is trying to control the pitch like on a 1200, that is mapping the pitch to a controller so that you can make precise adjustments without the pitch suddenly changing because the mapping is absolute.

I'm using a griffin powermate with a max patch rewired into live. the patch reads the key commands from the powermate and then adjusts the pitch through rewire. This way, when I turn the powermate to the right the pitch goes up in increments of .5 bpm and when I turn it to the left it goes down by .5 bpm increments. When I press the powermate it starts the track at the first beat.

I've had great results in my limited testing of this so far. Very easy to lock on and ride the pitch of a record. This is really exciting! if anyone wants the max executable let me know. Still thinking about what other features to add.

conny · Post by **conny** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:58 pm

Sinjin wrote::sigh:

i guess its too much to hope well all ever get to the point where we stop saying "my way is better than your way" about things that are actually all-inclusive in nature...

Keep the hope up...

I read a sample of posts here and came thinking in these lines:

There are people inventing new dishes/recepies
There are people capable of cooking these things
There are people capable of serving them to people in a good way
There are people enjoying and paying for these meals

So what's the battle about? Pride?

// C

zekrab · Post by **zekrab** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:10 pm

Vinyls, Live 5, Machines....

Just wait for the new R.Hawtin, Jeff Mills, L.Garnier...

But now, maybe there will be plenty on this forum...

malarky · Post by **malarky** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:00 pm

the way i see it skillfull djing with vinyl on turntables is partly art and partly sport.

whereas, a dj can be celebrated both for their musical direction as well as their physical abilities. different dj's fall in different areas of this spectrum. on one end are the musicians, and on the other are those who regard pulling off a great mix as being in the same vain as landing an exciting skateboard trick.

the digital realm basically takes away some of the ability to showcase physical complexities while at the same time expanding on the musical options available. there's nothing at all wrong with that. this is a fantastic thing for musicians. however, for those whose conceptualization of what makes a good dj *good* is based more upon the ability to execute something that is tangibly difficult, the idea of the computer assuming the basic role of beatmatching seems like cheating.

for the musician in me, using the computer means being able to play my own music, incorporate obscure elements, compose on the fly, and still have the bandwidth to play guitar and do vocals in my performances. on the other hand, the dj in me still has a soft spot for that unique combination of technique, grace, and musical ability involved in pulling off a great dj set.

i think the main point of contention is that there are these sportlike qualities in turntable djing that have little to do with the musical aspect of the performance. that doesn't mean that they aren't great in their own way, and it doesn't mean that computer performances are less great. but yeah, everybody is going to have a slightly different idea of what is and isn't spectacular to them. getting hopped up about it is futile.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:31 am

Well put, Malarky!

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:06 pm

well though it irritates some people to have this sort of discussion I think its
good, you get alot of perspectives and I always learn something which is something I love to do, it's one of those talks I think is healthy for open minds to have every now and again, only one thing struck me as kinda strange and that's that it seems alot of folks equate turntablism to tricks, dexterity, and physical ability and laptop djing to sound compositional quality. I think nothing is farther from the truth. turntablist (which i am not) are sound designers who wear the core of themselves on the outside. I get the impression that alot of you feel like people are not listening to what a turntablist does but just watching them..... I assure you people are listening to the music they make, it's astounding, full of micro variations to how did he just make that sound. .... the 'how did he do that trick' is inexplicably tied to the 'how did he make that sound, melody, groove, effect' statement. it seems that alot of people don't get that and I just wanted to make sure it gets mentioned.

turntablist are not like guitarist 'shredding'.....they are more like composers doing what only should be possible with a computer with their hands, and thats also why when I see someone reffer to the use of vinyl as 'antiquated'
it just makes me think they really don't understand how turntablist use records.
cut chemist, mixmaster mike, gunkhole, q-bert to name a few, these cats are making unbelievable music, there not just doing tricks and that's where the 'tricks vs composition' argument falls flat on its face.

astar · Post by **astar** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:02 pm

mic-minimal, nicely put. No one can say that QBert or Mixmaster Mike are just about tricks.. these guys also have an amazing musical ear.

Have you heard Kid Koala? By the far the most musical turntablist I've ever heard. He actually makes melodic compositions and remixes of his own just using one record that has a trumpet solo on it... cool shit

Dj Dj Dj Dj Dj

DJ vs Ableton

relative pitch adjustment control issue ... solved!