Is running windows via bootcamp the same as directly ?

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:13 am

is running windows via bootcamp the same as running it directly on a macbook, or is there a resource hit due to some virtual layer or whatever?

lapieuvre · Post by **lapieuvre** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:33 am

It runs fine, though I went into some trouble: As soon as I hooked a FW800 hard drive, I would eventually crash. I found a driver from Unibrain, and it fixed it. Also, everytime I boot under bootcamp, my sound is muted, not a big deal. But, the worst is I can't hook earphones, the sound still comes out of the speakers... very weird!

Mac Book Pro early 2011
Windows 7 64 bits running Bootcamp
Driver Asio4all (might be the cause of my problem)

DPMachine · Post by **DPMachine** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:42 am

Running it via Bootcamp = Running "directly"

It's not a virtual machine like VMWare or Parallels.

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:28 am

BoddAH · Post by **BoddAH** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:57 am

starving student wrote:is running windows via bootcamp the same as running it directly on a macbook, or is there a resource hit due to some virtual layer or whatever?

No it's the same thing as running it directly, "BootCamp" is just a fancy iMarketing term for an Apple bootloader and the hardware is, de facto, the same as on a Windows PC since the transition from Power PC to Intel.

It also installs a small (no bloat) programm that installs all necessary drivers (trackpad, webcam, etc.) and keeps them updated.

Overall it's the best Windows experience I ever had on a laptop which is pretty ironic considering it's a Mac.

lapieuvre wrote:It runs fine, though I went into some trouble: As soon as I hooked a FW800 hard drive, I would eventually crash. I found a driver from Unibrain, and it fixed it. Also, everytime I boot under bootcamp, my sound is muted, not a big deal. But, the worst is I can't hook earphones, the sound still comes out of the speakers... very weird!

Your problems must have another cause (maybe random hardware compatibility issues?), I don't think bootcamp is to blame.
As for muted sound in windows, it's probably the Asio4all drivers, the drivers mute all other sound sources when you launch your DAW. You can't have multiple sources but you'd get the same issue on any other Windows PC.

lapieuvre · Post by **lapieuvre** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:53 am

As for muted sound in windows, it's probably the Asio4all drivers, the drivers mute all other sound sources when you launch your DAW. You can't have multiple sources but you'd get the same issue on any other Windows PC.

I am a PC person(I just switched to Mac), never had any issues with Asio4all. When I boot My PC's no problems. When I bootcamp, I get these problems I talked about. The sound is muted when it boots.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:07 pm

I suppose a separate question is why you want to run PC software on a mac. I recently switched to a mac, and I found that about 95% of my tools had mac alternatives. The only reason I use Parallels is to use some PC specific tools, and for that, the CPU hit is negligible. These include some specific law-related software, Foobar, and some CD burning tools. Other than that, almost everything else works fine with OSX. Even FL Studio is coming out on OS X pretty soon. About the only synth I miss is Rapture, and that's because Cakewalk hasn't update it for Lion yet. I guess if I had to run Windows, I'd get a PC to do so.

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:32 pm

well neb I'm glad you asked

I've been running windows on a mac for about six years now and it's been great, I fudge around with osx now and then (this time has been the longest since i got a macbook air) but for the most part I prefer windows, I'm just used to it I guess
I even prefer movie maker to imovie now how wrong is that haha

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:45 pm

^in that case, the next question is why you don't get a comparable priced PC. Lenovo makes killer machines that are way more spec-ed out than Macs for cheaper. Is it a style thing?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. Just that I've found that when people run PC software on Macs, or vice versa with Hackintosh, strange anomalies occur. And in my old age, I'd much rather go with the flow rather than against it, so I can get to making music rather than troubleshooting anomalies.

Piplodocus · Post by **Piplodocus** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:49 pm

lapieuvre wrote:It runs fine, though I went into some trouble: As soon as I hooked a FW800 hard drive, I would eventually crash. I found a driver from Unibrain, and it fixed it.

When messing about with my MOTU and bootcamp (firewire) it didn't work to begin with. I had to go to control panel choose/find the FW port driver in device manager and uninstall/change the driver from the usual default Firewire port one to the one with "legacy" in the name. Then everything worked as expected.

Sorry the above instructions are a bit vague I did it a while back, and usually use OSX so my memory of the exact process isn't great...

Dunno why you'd be using ASIO4ALL (an unoptimised generic driver) when you could be doing it all in OSX with CoreAudio drivers! I guess you have your reasons though!

To agree with what was said by the others, yes Bootcamp IS direct. No hit at all. There is obviously a hit in a virtual environment, so don't expect to run music software or intensive gaming in a virtual machine like VMware or parallels. Hence I used to run music stuff all OSX (making sure no virtual machines are running which would slow it down), doing other non-music stuff would sometimes run some Win software in Parallels, and when gaming reboot into Win7 via bootcamp. At the momemnt I don't have any reson for Parallels so took it off and just use OSX for everything but reboot to Win7 for games.

Khazul · Post by **Khazul** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:54 pm

nebulae wrote:I suppose a separate question is why you want to run PC software on a mac. I recently switched to a mac, and I found that about 95% of my tools had mac alternatives.

Well if you have some PC only plugins that you cant/dont want to buy replacements for - then running audio apps on you make may make sense, but yes - in moving from PC to mac earlier tois year - this was the case with verty few audio related apps and even then it was actually just a couple of companies being greedy over making you buy an additional license to use it on osx.

Another debatable reason is actually Ive found my 2011 MBP17 to be about the best laptop for running audio applications under windows 7 simply because there has been no need whatsoever to do the usual round of disabling certain drivers, OEM junk etc. On this basis, an 2011 MBP seems like a really good windows laptop even if you never run OSX at all (kind of silly, because OSX is actually a nice OS for using a computer and doing audio production once you get used to it). Kind of ironic that in the end, it seems apple might actually make the best windows laptops

(Well - best engineered and best for media production).

Back to bootcamp - as mentioned - its basically a set of tools and drivers to partition your mac hd to create a windows boot volume. Windows then runs natively on the mac hardware just like any PC - of course you need to install the apple bootcamp drivers - these are just like any other hardware specific drivers, except the install and setup experience is quick and easy unlike many OEM driver and ueless application sets that come with many PC, especially laptops.

If you have the latest version of parallels (v7?), then you have two different ways of using bootcamp - 1. Natively by booting into windows, and 2. virtual by running windows inside OSX - even to the point of Windows applicatiosn windows being entirely separated and so appearing just like OSX app windows - even with OSX style icons etc if you really want - this tends to be a bit of shock the first time you see it - looks like you have MS Visio for eg running natively in OSX which of course it isnt

I havnt tried running any audio apps under parallels - I wouldnt expect much as it is a virtual machine, but thats where the option to boot natively in windows is great.

Piplodocus · Post by **Piplodocus** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:59 pm

nebulae wrote:Lenovo makes killer machines that are way more spec-ed out than Macs for cheaper.

I'm not gonna bother checking Lenovo's pricing but are you sure you're comparing same spec? When I bought my 17" macbook pro about a year ago it was just over 2 grand. The same spec Alienwares and Dells, etc cost about £1800 but were twice the size and weight and had a shitty little trackpad (as well as not being all shiny aluminium and nice!). Around the same time there was a lot of BS about of people comparing only the CPU frequency but the wrong processor types, or comparing the intel Turbo-boost speed of competitiors with normal running speed of the macbook.

Apple don't compete on cheap desktop pricing at all, but their laptops are never that bad value compared to competitors (unless you buy them at the end of the refresh cycle - in which case I agree: wait and get a new model just after it comes out).

Khazul · Post by **Khazul** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:07 pm

Piplodocus wrote:
nebulae wrote:Lenovo makes killer machines that are way more spec-ed out than Macs for cheaper.
I'm not gonna bother checking Lenovo's pricing but are you sure you're comparing same spec? When I bought my 17" macbook pro about a year ago it was just over 2 grand. The same spec Alienwares and Dells, etc cost about £1800 but were twice the size and weight and had a shitty little trackpad (as well as not being all shiny aluminium and nice!). Around the same time there was a lot of BS about of people comparing only the CPU frequency but the wrong processor types, or comparing the intel Turbo-boost speed of competitiors with normal running speed of the macbook.

Apple don't compete on cheap desktop pricing at all, but their laptops are never that bad value compared to competitors (unless you buy them at the end of the refresh cycle - in which case I agree: wait and get a new model just after it comes out).

Similar experince - when I was looking around at trhe beginning of this year for a new PC laptop (but also considering getting maybe a mac mini for iOS development), then the kind of laptop I was loooking at to serve as both a live audio machine (DJing, Live sets etc) and also serve as quite a decent windows laptop for IT work and enterprise software development on virtual machines etc, then the kind of spec I was looking at with a lenovo was in a similar ballpark to the 2011 MBP17 I eventually bought. I guess the thing that swayed me was that the MBP17 was such a good machine and meant I didnt have to also get a mini. In the end - I'm really happy with the choice and certainly dont feel like Ive had to compromise to get a dual OS machine.

The lenovo do have some advantages - expandability and I/O and I have often wished the MBP either had more USB ports or thats someone had by now made a basic thunderbolt->USB+FW800+eSATA box.

Have to agree - dont buy an apple machine past 9 months into the cycle - as then they can seem poorly specced and expensive for what you get if your are purely after a good windows machine. This year I think we were lucky as apple got pretty good timing on the release of the MBPs. Just a shame about lack of thunderbolt peripherals.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:10 pm

^without delving into the epic mac vs. pc debate, all I'm saying is if you're a PC software user AND you don't care about Apple industrial style/design, then there are great alternatives. Lenovo is a great example of a well-constructed laptop with quality parts, that looks horrible but works great. My perspective is that if I'm going to run PC software, I'll get a PC. If I get a Mac, then I'll mainly run OS X. Running software on hardware that it was designed for seems to be the path of least resistance. Just my two cents.

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:42 am

your two cents makes sense no worries, I'm just very paticular.
actually I thought about a lenovo, constantly recommend them to friends and bought one for my mother recently
but my idea of the perfect machine controller combo for myself is/was the macbook air, launchpad, and maschine mikro.
I did try out a samsung for a couple of days and it could have worked esthetically but in the end I went back to my first choice, which was this damn macbook air, with no damn firewire, not enough usb ports and bootcamp hell being that it only supports windows 7 via bootcamp which I hate and it refuses to let you run windows xp which I love. and because i won't use a cracked version of windows 7 I am currently doing the longest stint of osx I've ever had to do. I do not like lion, the mac os on my other blackbook is leopard, not snow leopard but regular leopard and I like it much better than lion but the good chaps here and everywhere suggest not to install it on my macbook air because it's too old, apparently macs don't like it when you do that and the macbook air I just got is seemingly as paticular as I am and even more so than other macbooks. The thing I dislike about it the most though is the $1900.00 price tag and the not included super drive that I got which happens to suck royally, that and the less than thunderous options available for the thunderbolt port. I've got a motu ultralite soundcard that I can't even use with it but I'm planning on trying out the props balance soundcard when it comes out. I am also planning on getting an apple monitor in a month or so that has the thunderbolt
connection and also provides good ole firewire ports and extra usb ports so that will allow me to use the ultralite with the macbook air.
so in the end the reason I have a macbook is because in the further end it will all be alright. I'm going to end up getting windows 7 because today marks the end of my trials and tribulations with every bootcamp xp hack known to man for this situation and they haven't worked satisfactorily for me, and I simply must use Aurexs launchpad apps and they don't work correctly with os lion due to midi issues between os lion and ableton.

well that's my story and it felt good to share, it's not gearlust that drives me but my own sense of feng shui that I simply must follow, the best part is that when it's all said and done my computer, maschine mikro and launchpad will all be painted the color scheme of the old mpc 60 or mpc 2000
the macbook will be skinned but the controllers painted, I'm also having an mpc 2500 and two kp3s painted the same scheme and when it's all done
synergy will be complete. What I have found that I have to do is approach anything I do gearwise from an instrumental perspective rather than a mac user or pc user perspective or it just won't feel right, I don't want to see a computer even when I'm using one for music I want it to feel like something else so I change it.

Is running windows via bootcamp the same as directly ?

Is running windows via bootcamp the same as directly ?

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