fake/boring live set?

[Bkon]

Hi guys, this is my first post!
I've enjoyed this thread and reading the arguments from both sides. I too get annoyed at posers pretending to do more than they are, or worse yet, recorded sets!! But as a ex-dj I know that the more animated you are during the show the more the crowd thinks you are 'going off', you got to decide between integrity and approval.
Anyway I have a question, I have been producing music for a few years using reason, now I want to take it live using ableton. The problem is my music is very linear and arranged mostly into 8 bar loops, so I have found the least confusing way to organise my set is to export each part of the songs as 8 bar loops, then arrange the clips into scenes for each section of the songs. The scenes are then triggered via midi keyboard. The problem is as you can imagine, very boring, one button press every 8 bars. A little filter modulating, possible some beat repeat, that's it. I was thinking of triggering some samples, stabs and hits over the top of this and playing some simple riffs on a hardware synth. Apart from this, the set is a little fake/boring. Can anyone give me any tips or advice on how to make this "live" show more interesting, and also more satisfying for me to play.
I have MacBook, keyboard controller with rotary knobs, mixer, 1 rackmount hardware synth with controller/cv sequencer.
Any help appreciated, cheers.

[Machinesworking]

I personally think this has always been the problem with electronic music, it's boring to watch live.
I settle for the fact that I get to hear songs I like out of 24" subwoofers and huge PAs, but live rock shows are always visually more satisfying, being able to kinesthetically connect the sound coming out of the speakers with various players on stage makes for a more memorable experience. Live is a great tool for helping that out on the performers side, but most controllers so far don't break away from the simple fact that in a bass, guitar, drum style band you can see the movement of hands and arms communicating with the instrument, Keyboards and laptops? not so much. I live electronic music for the variety of sounds that you get, but it's a piss poor live experience unless you're dancing or not looking at the stage at all.

[supamonsta]

The problem is my music is very linear and arranged mostly into 8 bar loops, so I have found the least confusing way to organise my set is to export each part of the songs as 8 bar loops, then arrange the clips into scenes for each section of the songs. The scenes are then triggered via midi keyboard. The problem is as you can imagine, very boring, one button press every 8 bars.

yes indeed, very boring for youn then probably boring too for your audience.

I used to do the same as you, but with each song exported to 6 audio stems(my controller had 6 tracks, so I decided to go with 6 : kick+snare, cymbals, bass, synth1, synths2, samples)). So I had one matrix of 6 tracks * 8 clips each, each clip for one song being a 16, 32 or 64 bars long. And I used to mix 2 of these song matrix at one time, dragging these from live's browser to the session view pre-made midi-controlled audio-routed slots (live set with no clip at all when you launch it, jut drag in it the song matrixes I wanted to play, when I wanted to)

so I could mix between the songs parts, use i.e. the kick from one with the bass of the other, and all that stuff with lots of beat repeats, fx sends, etc.

That was cool, but now I tend to 'build' my songs directly in my live set, so as it is directly "playable". The song arrangement and recording and mixing phase will come AFTER I play the set several times, when I'll have good live-found ideas for my buildings, transitions, drops...

and I don't want to deal anymore with audio files of songs... that's for DJ, and I love messing up stuff live




hope this can help

[starving student]

honestly I can't help but think it hasn't always been this way, I think the trouble started when computer musicians started calling themselves electronic musicians and they really seem to be two different things. If we compose for a computer to play our music then maybe it's time to call ourselves computer musicians. I don't think people would expect anything out of artist that play under that moniker, they would expect the computer to do something special in the confines of itself imho.

I think more so of this kind of group as electronic musicians and even without the front girl they would give a great show. but clearly these are not computer musicians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nokkQj8E2ZY

[doghouse]

The problem is people's expectations of what a live performance is (or should be).

If your music is 100% sequenced arrangements, then maybe a live performance really is just hitting play and waiting for it to end.

If there isn't going to be some variation or improvisation I might as well stay home and listen to the CD

[starving student]

well if the center of your artistry is a sequencer then that clears up about 90% of it I guess, but I think you're right that perception is really the issue
because we accept peoples definition of a performance until the subject turns to them defining the performances of people using computers and then we go all batshit
you can clearly see that in the area of electronic music the 'performance aspect' has clearly not evolved but devolved but we hoot and holler at every new midi controller that comes out every thursday morning in the name of the vital significance of performance, I am paticularly guilty of this because I'm on pins and needles waiting for the player who's going to step up and challenge maschine and I hope it's going to be ableton, but the point is maybe what we need is not a new fangled controller that tells us with it's 'oh better than the last version' lcd display that it's performing, maybe we just need to freakin perform! or at least face up to our perceptions. Either we perform and stop trying to change the definition of performing every time a computer is on stage, or if we think we're so different and special then lets make different and special official, tell people we're not like those other electronic musicians who play instruments that are not computers and perform, we are electronic computer musicians and we don't perform, our computers perform for us.
either way some soul searching is def needed, take a look at any site like create digital music and you can see things are just going further down the rabbit hole of people not knowing wtf is going on when this type of artistry is before them. I don't think it's good for anybody, ignorance might be bliss in some cases but in this regard it is not.

[stringtapper]

…you can clearly see that in the area of popular electronic music the 'performance aspect' has clearly not evolved but devolved…

Fixed that for ya.

[starving student]

thanks

[stringtapper]

But it's true, the types of DIY controller setups happening in the avant-garde/academic/installation scene are very inspiring.

[Ryanmf]

Posted this awesome demo in a different thread last night, but since this one has popped up again the video seems relevant here as well.

[Metaphreaq]

…you can clearly see that in the area of popular electronic music the 'performance aspect' has clearly not evolved but devolved…

Fixed that for ya.

This is very true, most people don't want to see you 'jam out' they want to hear something cohesive, if you can jam and make something cohesive, awesome for you. Most people are somehow 'rearranging' their tracks live, they have a normal 'production' workflow in the studio but they aren't really making their tracks live. Trying to do anything like that is hard and you have to be willing to take the risk, big artists who are getting paid a lot don't take those risks, imo. Some do, and are respected for it, but I can't blame someone for not.

[Machinesworking]

But it's true, the types of DIY controller setups happening in the avant-garde/academic/installation scene are very inspiring.

Still has nothing on watching a rock band or a string quartet IMO. It's just something that has to be handed over to the more intimate experience of knowing exactly where a sound in the song is coming from compared to "Oh look that person there is wearing body contacts that are probably controlling a Max patch with their movements. Pretty sure that's a Lemur on the right as well." Love electronic music and avant-garde etc. but the experience is almost 100% audible. For most people rock shows win out every time on kinesthetic energy, that may be a primary reason for it's continued popularity, that it's actually more of an experience to see it live and isn't maybe less hifi depending on your home sound system.

[supamonsta]

synths and machines tweaking is a good way to entertain you and your audience

be at least 2 on stage

enjoy yourself in perfect sync'ed magic and the crowd will see

[Muzik 4 Machines]

Most people are somehow 'rearranging' their tracks live, they have a normal 'production' workflow in the studio but they aren't really making their tracks live. Trying to do anything like that is hard and you have to be willing to take the risk, big artists who are getting paid a lot don't take those risks

i do it all the time, i cant think of any other way actually, otherwise i'd feel like im cheating on myself

but i come from a band background(guitar/sfx) in the 90's so faking on stage is something i cant even think of

[Metaphreaq]

That may have came off as I am condoning it. really I enjoy pretty much doing everything live, I use either launchpad with some of monome emulator stuff, or maschine. however half the time people think I'm dj'ing anyways, I shrug.