We Hear Different

[Tarekith]

New blog post:

http://tarekith.com/we-hear-different/

[ikeaboy]

Nice post. I always thought the shift to listening analytically, for me anyway, was something that hampered my ability to get lost in sound, but only for a few years near the start. Now I can listen one both levels and I think that's what your describing as well. It's like the zen proverb

- first there is a mountain
- then there is no mountain
- then there is

[JuanSOLO]

When I got my first guitar and discovered feedback on my stereo it immediately took away all the mystery Jimi Hendrix used to give me. But I never really felt like I missed the days when I was just a fan of music and not making it.

Me and some friends I make music with were talking about this same thing in relation too what we like as music and how to achieve it. For example, when we make a song we do our best to listen to it as if a friend gave it to us, and try to let go of the attachments to making music. It's seems so easy for bands to think a song is good over the labor of making it, instead of listening to it and asking, would I like this if I wasn't a part of it, if I just heard it on the internet or something.

I enjoy making music I want to hear, music I think I like, however when it comes to performing there is also the wonderment of what others might like about the performance, what the audience thinks and wants. I find that to be a really strange train of thought these days because I am far from being just a fan of music, so to think I may know what a passive audience would enjoy is probably over thought. Hence I find myself trying to make music to blow the mind of my bandmates. I feel like if I show up to practice with some rough idea and the band really digs it, I have succeeded.

I work as an animator at a studio, and in the same way I can no longer just watch a movie without my mind dissecting the story, fx, composition etc. However, wether it's movies or music, if I get lost in them and the experience wisks me away I feel like the creators did a great job because I never stopped to critique it while experiencing it.

[A Funky Rhythm]

Great read!

In my case the more analytical I have become when listening to music, the more I enjoy it. I love 'dissecting' a track I like into its constituent parts and hopefully come up with ideas on how to incorporate this into my own music.

I play by ear and often will recall a song I last heard months ago and try to learn it without playing the track first. This way I retain the general thrust of the song but get to put my mark on it as well.

This over analysis often holds me back, as I try to make music to impress other musicians. I want the person listening to it to think ''I like what he did there..'' or ''Interesting progression/effect/mix etc''. The problem is that making music that is fun to analyse is not the same as music that joe public wants to listen to. I have tried to listen to and create music without over-complicating things, and its very hard to do IMO.

Despite this I love my music and the more I learn the more I can revisit favourite albums and discover something new. I would hate to listen to an album and feel exactly the same thing every time.

On the other hand I have a friend who is a drummer and he ''Can't listen to music for enjoyment any more'' as he always is looking for negatives or flaws in the recording. I suppose it really is all about perspective...

[Angstrom]

Although there is enjoyment in making music ... there is a self-made trap here of becoming fascinated with creative processes rather creative output. The emotive or visceral quality of music becomes lost in an over obsessive ordering and categorisation.

This is why (I believe) many older musicians start to sound "boring", because they become technicians rather than artists. An artist needs to have that beginner's mind in order to judge a piece or a sound in isolation from the creative processes that produced it. While technique is important, it is equally important to be able to learn how to step away from technique and just listen like a child.

Dirty, ugly and badly played music is some of my favourite music - because it conveys something human to me in it's brutal raw form. Meanwhile plastic, over-produced anal tweak-head music is all-pervasive, whether it's r&b, pop, tarnce, soul, ... These over-productions are born from the minds of people over-fascinated with the process and who have forgotten what the magic of music really is. Clue: it's not 32 bit IR reverb impulses.

It shouldn't matter if a sound was produced from seventy hours of circuit soldering, or one drunken moment of sampling by mistake - if the outcome sounds the same and the resultant track is good to listen to. But for those who listen different the process and processes all begin to matter too much. The process, the understanding and the demonstration of knowledge becomes more fascinating than the music itself. As the inner child dies a jazz session guitarist is born.

Shoshin (??) is a concept in Zen Buddhism meaning "beginner's mind". It refers to having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying a subject, even when studying at an advanced level, just as a beginner in that subject would. The term is especially used in the study of Zen Buddhism and Japanese martial arts.

The phrase is also used in the title of the book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by the Zen teacher Shunryu Suzuki, who says the following about the correct approach to Zen practice: In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.

[3dot...]

Although there is enjoyment in making music ... there is a self-made trap here of becoming fascinated with creative processes rather creative output. The emotive or visceral quality of music becomes lost in an over obsessive ordering and categorisation.

This is why (I believe) many older musicians start to sound "boring", because they become technicians rather than artists. An artist needs to have that beginner's mind in order to judge a piece or a sound in isolation from the creative processes that produced it. While technique is important, it is equally important to be able to learn how to step away from technique and just listen like a child.

Dirty, ugly and badly played music is some of my favourite music - because it conveys something human to me in it's brutal raw form. Meanwhile plastic, over-produced anal tweak-head music is all-pervasive, whether it's r&b, pop, tarnce, soul, ... These over-productions are born from the minds of people over-fascinated with the process and who have forgotten what the magic of music really is. Clue: it's not 32 bit IR reverb impulses.

It shouldn't matter if a sound was produced from seventy hours of circuit soldering, or one drunken moment of sampling by mistake - if the outcome sounds the same and the resultant track is good to listen to. But for those who listen different the process and processes all begin to matter too much. The process, the understanding and the demonstration of knowledge becomes more fascinating than the music itself. As the inner child dies a jazz session guitarist is born.

Shoshin (??) is a concept in Zen Buddhism meaning "beginner's mind". It refers to having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying a subject, even when studying at an advanced level, just as a beginner in that subject would. The term is especially used in the study of Zen Buddhism and Japanese martial arts.

The phrase is also used in the title of the book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by the Zen teacher Shunryu Suzuki, who says the following about the correct approach to Zen practice: In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.

Amen to that..
in simpler terms.. the "fun" factor..the inner-child..
just doing something cool..no practice..
not prior tutorials or manuals..
and most importantly .. NO INTERNETS!(or cellphones...)

good insights in that article..
I can relate to the situation of just wanting some peace and quiet..
and listening to some stuff out-right offends me..
I need to leave the room ..
and I agree it's a gift.. but there are downsides..
ignorance is bliss they say?

[Sibanger]

As the inner child dies a jazz session guitarist is born.

Quote of the day.

Thanks Angstrom.

[nathannn]

i like the points angstrom also made.

thankfully i dont pick apart songs or the production till after quite a few listens. some songs i still dont pick apart because they have a newness to them, one song in particular is tv on the radio's wolf like me. the song is kinda older now but it still sounds so good that i just listen to the song in its entirety. maybe it is because the song is raw and not perfect, this is also my favorite type of music. i love stuff that you don't know if it was made in pro tools or recorded live to tape.

i should mention though that purely electronic music with no vocals gets picked apart much sooner with me that any other type of music. maybe its because its always obvious how it was made (not that i dont like electronic music).

[Machinesworking]

Dirty, ugly and badly played music is some of my favourite music - because it conveys something human to me in it's brutal raw form. Meanwhile plastic, over-produced anal tweak-head music is all-pervasive, whether it's r&b, pop, tarnce, soul, ... These over-productions are born from the minds of people over-fascinated with the process and who have forgotten what the magic of music really is. Clue: it's not 32 bit IR reverb impulses.

Yeah that about sums it up to me too.
I am blessed with a childs enthusiasm when I hear a song that I really like.
I'm guilty of listening to the song in terms of mix and mastering after hearing it a couple dozen times, but I confess that at least half the stuff I listen to is badly mixed and mastered. To me it's still about the raw edge and beat.

Though I would add that the rare combination of technically clinically precise productions and playing coupled with that enthusiasm and raw emotion etc. those are my top tier:
King Krimson - Disipline
David Byrne and Brian Eno- My Life in the Bush of Ghosts
Pink Floyd- Most of it before the Final Cut.
Prodigy - Fat of the Land
Underworld- Second Toughest of the Infants

It's not a list of my favorite albums, but I think they all straddle the line between clinical perfection, energy and emotion/kinesthetic impact etc.

[ikeaboy]

The problem is that making music that is fun to analyse is not the same as music that joe public wants to listen to. I have tried to listen to and create music without over-complicating things, and its very hard to do IMO.

This is a good point as well i reckon and i think that applies to Joe 'listens to techno etc..' Public as well a Joe 'X-factor artist fan' Public. Lots of times over the years I hypnotised myself into thinking things like "when everyone hears the 24 bit version of this live set they're gonna freak out about the increased dynamic range in the reverb tails" lol.

[Fzang]

Lots of times over the years I hypnotised myself into thinking things like "when everyone hears the 24 bit version of this live set they're gonna freak out about the increased dynamic range in the reverb tails" lol.

-
I always find myself picking music apart rather than just enjoying it. When I watch a movie I just... sit.. and watch. And sometimes I stumble upon those "behind the scenes" on a random TV channel, were all the actors from the movie are like "THIS SCENE WAS TOTALLY WICKED WITH THAT CAMERA PAN AND THE COMEDIAN", and I never really noticed anything. And then, when I listen to some music I find myself thinking "that pong-sound after every 13th kick is genius!" for 4 minutes. But that's the enjoyment of listening to music from a more "inside" angle. You can squeeze so much more out of music than "normal people".