Can anyone help me choose an firewire audio interface

[Sounds_Of_MT]

Hello everyone, im sorry if this has been posted already. I did a search through the forums and couldn't find anything though the pages and pages of results.
I recently just purchased a new macbook pro 15" (early 2011) 2.2GHz i7, runs live like a dream compare to my last laptop lol. A couple weeks ago my buddy and I purchased the Digidesign 003 factory. Plugged that puppy in, downloaded the newest drivers for it, and got it up and running. In doing so, it messed my computer up a bit and it took me a little while, with the the help of google, to fix it. After everything was resolved and could use it as an interface, we are unable to get the thing to function (midi control wise). After doing some more research, we found out that it wasn't a great interface to buy (compatibility wise). We are now getting rid of it, but have no idea what would be the best firewire audio interface to get. We have a budget of around 1200-1500... maybe a smudge higher if it was worth it, and would like it to work flawlessly with live 8.2.6 and my macbook. We were looking for something that would sound great, and possibly a control interface at the same time. although the control interface aspect of it really isn't a must.
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated, thanks in advance

[parma]

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_400.php

[Winterpark]

Metric Halo

[jestermgee]

What was your reasoning behind getting the DD003?

> Did you need the multi-input audio interface
> did you need an automated control surface
> Needed to empty loads of cash

There are loads of options and opinions. I prefer separate audio and controller interfaces. I use a Presonus Firebox for audio in (4ch analogue in and 2 digital) then I use a Mackie MCU Pro for control. I don't need much in the way of inputs and rarely need the ability to automate anything when recording in. The Mackie (control surface only) is great when it comes to switching between applications. I use it seamlessly in Ableton, Cubase and Sony Vegas. My soundcard has never skipped a beat in 7 years either.

Combination cost of both: $1200

[Sounds_Of_MT]

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_400.php

yeah i was looking at that and the 800 model but realized i dont need that many inputs at this point in time lol. Is this what you use?

Metric Halo

This is really cool also. Do you have a suggestion by chance at which would be a good choice? Also do you think that Thunderbolt would be something to wait for? or thats going to be in the works for a while yet?

What was your reasoning behind getting the DD003?

> Did you need the multi-input audio interface
> did you need an automated control surface
> Needed to empty loads of cash

There are loads of options and opinions. I prefer separate audio and controller interfaces. I use a Presonus Firebox for audio in (4ch analogue in and 2 digital) then I use a Mackie MCU Pro for control. I don't need much in the way of inputs and rarely need the ability to automate anything when recording in. The Mackie (control surface only) is great when it comes to switching between applications. I use it seamlessly in Ableton, Cubase and Sony Vegas. My soundcard has never skipped a beat in 7 years either.

Combination cost of both: $1200

Haha, well. We have been jamming for quite a while now and using a shitty computer. so we finally decided enough is enough. we were getting horrible sound quality and live was always crashing on us because of the computer we were using. so we found this website http://tweakheadz.com/audio_interface_f ... _chart.htm and look through all of these devices for what would seem to be the best choice. obviously being to giddy and anxious to just get an audio interface, we just chose that one because it had good reviews, and made the very bad decision to not look into it a bit further (compatibility wise). So now we have learned from these mistakes lol.

I saw the Mackie MCU pro a on youtube and was impressed by it. We currently use my Novation SL mk2 for the sliders and mixing, but its just not enough for the control perspective. so you would recommend this if we are looking for a control side of things? Because now that you said something, keeping audio separate from the controller interfaces seems like a cleaner setup and less problems. Plus the ability to upgrade audio interfaces if needed.
So out of curiosity, do you notice a huge sound difference using an audio interface compare to lets say just plugging in a synth through usb?

[Sounds_Of_MT]

Sorry for the noob questions. We are fairly new to using proper equipment and understanding how to properly setup everything, as well as using live to its full potential. So your patience is appreciated.

[jestermgee]

Most of my work is done within Ableton so I use Abes instruments, samples and VSTs to do my sound generation. The Tweakeheads site is a good resource of info and I remember looking at the DD003 many years ago and thinking I would love to have it.

One thing to keep in mind when talking sound quality for a DAW is you have 2 paths... Sound IN and sound OUT of the DAW. Different setups accommodate different requirements. In the case where you want to record LIVE instruments into the DAW for editing and sequencing along with other elements, you would look more at getting an audio interface that has good pre-amps and if you have more than one or a few instruments or players, then possibly an interface that has multi-channel inputs to record all at once. Otherwise just doing layered takes would work fine.

On the playback side, it's a LOT more involved to get accurate and good sound out. Most audio interfaces these days in the semi professional and professional markets have great quality output but then you need EVERYTHING in the chain to be just as good quality... The external mixer, cables, ground connections and monitors. And lets not even start on the debate of room treatment and speaker placement.

My setup works great for me. I started on a Behringer BCF2000 to get a feel for the control surface side (these are cheap as dog bones) and do about 80% of what the Mackie units do... Only the 20% they don't do is what I found myself wanting to access (such as simple track arm/solo/mute functions without needing 2 hands and a HUD). After using it for a year I decided I was ready for the bigger gear. I'm 30 and have been doing this since I was 14 and learnt to not get too excited about gear and take baby steps. Hard since I love technology and mixing/controlling.

The 003 you have will probably sell for near what you paid so you can get most your cash back (unless you can just take it back) but I would start looking at what you want to do in terms of recording sound IN.... A control surface like the MCU makes accessing track commands and common functions simple with a mouse BUT it doesn't really make things "better", just more hands on and easier since you have a board of controls to access without really looking while your mouse can do other things.

Works foe me and many others but not everyone.

[Winterpark]

Metric Halo

This is really cool also. Do you have a suggestion by chance at which would be a good choice? Also do you think that Thunderbolt would be something to wait for? or thats going to be in the works for a while yet?

probably the ULN-2 if you don't require lots of multiple ins...

MH are pretty much rock solid for Mac... and they have a future-proof policy. I'm sure that if/when thunderbolt is taken up by audio interfaces, that MH will be on-board and will have some sort of retro-fit available... which will no doubt enhance what they're already doing with their onboard +DSP stuff.

what instruments are you actually recording anyway?

[Sounds_Of_MT]

Most of my work is done within Ableton so I use Abes instruments, samples and VSTs to do my sound generation. The Tweakeheads site is a good resource of info and I remember looking at the DD003 many years ago and thinking I would love to have it.

One thing to keep in mind when talking sound quality for a DAW is you have 2 paths... Sound IN and sound OUT of the DAW. Different setups accommodate different requirements. In the case where you want to record LIVE instruments into the DAW for editing and sequencing along with other elements, you would look more at getting an audio interface that has good pre-amps and if you have more than one or a few instruments or players, then possibly an interface that has multi-channel inputs to record all at once. Otherwise just doing layered takes would work fine.

On the playback side, it's a LOT more involved to get accurate and good sound out. Most audio interfaces these days in the semi professional and professional markets have great quality output but then you need EVERYTHING in the chain to be just as good quality... The external mixer, cables, ground connections and monitors. And lets not even start on the debate of room treatment and speaker placement.

My setup works great for me. I started on a Behringer BCF2000 to get a feel for the control surface side (these are cheap as dog bones) and do about 80% of what the Mackie units do... Only the 20% they don't do is what I found myself wanting to access (such as simple track arm/solo/mute functions without needing 2 hands and a HUD). After using it for a year I decided I was ready for the bigger gear. I'm 30 and have been doing this since I was 14 and learnt to not get too excited about gear and take baby steps. Hard since I love technology and mixing/controlling.

The 003 you have will probably sell for near what you paid so you can get most your cash back (unless you can just take it back) but I would start looking at what you want to do in terms of recording sound IN.... A control surface like the MCU makes accessing track commands and common functions simple with a mouse BUT it doesn't really make things "better", just more hands on and easier since you have a board of controls to access without really looking while your mouse can do other things.

Works foe me and many others but not everyone.

Again bare with me on these questions. We have been doing layered takes since we started making music, so if this ends up being the result thats ok. Our biggest thing is that our end result sounds like amateur hour. I don't know how we put up with it as long as we did, but its gotta change haha. We just find that the sound that our instruments can produce are SOOOO much better than what we are able to record in Ableton. So we will be looking into an interface like you suggested, that has good pre-amps and probably something with multi-channel inputs.

Now i understand the sound IN part of it, but i have a couple questions about the OUT aspect of things. When taking audio out of the interface, should it be going into an external mixer for controlling the quality further? As for the monitor part of it, we dont really have a proper studio setup. we dont have our own place yet to properly build one and treat the room for sound quality, so we just use our headphones. I know this sounds like the shittiest setup ever lol, but we are working on changing this.

For the control surface part of this, we have been using the Novation Sl mk2 and has been great for us up to this point. We can arm tracks, and cue tracks. Im just sick of it being so crammed into the top corner of the midi keyboard, and would like the control part of things to be a bit more spread out. So if we were to get something, it would be for the same reasons you bought your Mackie.

Thanks again for your help on the situation, its greatly appreciated.

[Sounds_Of_MT]

[/quote]

probably the ULN-2 if you don't require lots of multiple ins...

MH are pretty much rock solid for Mac... and they have a future-proof policy. I'm sure that if/when thunderbolt is taken up by audio interfaces, that MH will be on-board and will have some sort of retro-fit available... which will no doubt enhance what they're already doing with their onboard +DSP stuff.

what instruments are you actually recording anyway?[/quote]

For now, all we have is the Novation Ultranova, and a Roland SH-201 for our synths. Then the Novation SL mk2 for the midi controller and a Akai Pro LPD8 for drum pads. I will be buying more instruments in the near future, so this would be good for expansion. Do you own a MH? If I were to get one, would it be worth looking into the DSP licence?
Thanks again

[Winterpark]

I've got a 2882 +DSP. Recently upgraded from Motu Traveler.

The basic +DSP that comes with it is pretty cool anyway, so you could always buy the interface now, and see if you'd like the functionality of the +DSP first before you commit to it. I personally think the +DSP is awesome... you can set it up to essentially run as a summing box for mixdowns... with all the dsp fx at your disposal.

If you're just using it for line inputs from Synths, the quality of the mix pres may be a little overkill... but it will serve you well into the future if you want to start recording using mics.

hope that helps

[Sounds_Of_MT]

I've got a 2882 +DSP. Recently upgraded from Motu Traveler.

The basic +DSP that comes with it is pretty cool anyway, so you could always buy the interface now, and see if you'd like the functionality of the +DSP first before you commit to it. I personally think the +DSP is awesome... you can set it up to essentially run as a summing box for mixdowns... with all the dsp fx at your disposal.

If you're just using it for line inputs from Synths, the quality of the mix pres may be a little overkill... but it will serve you well into the future if you want to start recording using mics.

hope that helps

Awesome, yeah waiting to get the +DSP would probably be the case regardless, mainly because of the money situation haha. I found a 2882 on ebay for 900 bucks. Wish i had the money, but you know how that goes.

My buddy was also talking about the Apogee Ensemble. Would you still Choose the 2882?