Ableton has weak output..truth?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
spr1000
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Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by spr1000 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:30 am

It seems some comrades of mine argue that when rendering their music, pro tools or logic provides a better sound on the final bounce,but have not provided any factual proof. Has anyone ever did a comparison with let's say Pro Tools when doing a final master? Was there any difference? Discuss.

shuutobi
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by shuutobi » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:41 am

Last edited by shuutobi on Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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puzzlefactory
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by puzzlefactory » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:40 am

I've never come across anyone claiming that there is a difference in audio quality of the final bounce (although I did find that article an interesting read). What I have come across frequently is people claiming the quality of the native pluggins in Live are inferior when compared to the native pluggins in other Daws such as Logic or Pro-tools, in particular the quality of the filters have been mentioned on other forums (Dogs on Acid forum had quite a few threads discussing it), but all the native pluggins are cited for improvement.

Maybe this is what your friend was referring to when talkin about the audio quality in Live.

newboss
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by newboss » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:21 pm

I dont bounce but record thru some analog summing back into the daw.. and there logic and protools sound much better.. . I dont think that this is only related to plug ins.. but.. maybe.. cant exclude that possibility.

Komodovaran
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by Komodovaran » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:27 pm

If your output is too weak, you need to turn it up to 11. I've heard Pro Tools even has up to 12 in the latest version.

Forge.
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by Forge. » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:11 pm

learn how to use it all properly and these discussions are meaningless.

There's really not that much you need to know.

A basic understanding of the physics of sound, the relationship between harmonics and pitch and frequency and timbre or tone.

WHen you really get what is going on, it's all a case of practicing mixing sounds with different prominent frequencies together and understanding how they change over time.

that is audio engineering in a nutshell. The people developing Ableton are really clever and know what they are doing, and if you do too you can't fairly blame their tools.

People who make these kinds of claims are just being a bit lazy and making sweeping claims based on not having spent that long with it.

Most of the time the differences people are reacting too are just differences in volume.

Put it another way, if you can't make professional quality music with ANY of the DAWs around today, it's your own skills that need improving.

http://www.abletontrainer.com/?p=316

http://www.abletontrainer.com/?p=308

JAMM
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by JAMM » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:25 pm

It,s the (mastering)effects and their different settings/quality which makes the difference in the final mix.

Forge.
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by Forge. » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:03 am

JAMM wrote:It,s the (mastering)effects and their different settings/quality which makes the difference in the final mix.
It's the skills more.

arafel
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by arafel » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:21 am

Forget Skillz..

Pick up Logic for $199 and this awesome plug to drop on the mastering chain!!

http://www.sfxmachine.com/tppro/index.html

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2.8ghz Quad PowerMac, Fa-66 using optical link, Live 9.72, Remote25, Maschine, Samson 65a.

pencilrocket
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by pencilrocket » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:43 am

Maybe because of the warp and your mixing failure.
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mholloway
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by mholloway » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:56 am

yawn. the carousel keeps spinning.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

spr1000
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by spr1000 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:13 am

Great article shuutboi. I pretty much had a hunch that there would be no difference and it is truly about your mixing or mastering skills. Some of the greatest sounding music has been made on analog equipment. Not to mention they dealt with live mixing and destructive editing back then,so we should never make these comparisons when referencing sound.

jestermgee
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by jestermgee » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:08 pm

spr1000 wrote: Some of the greatest sounding music has been made on analog equipment.
Indeed.... Actually, until about 20 years ago, all music was analogue. Guitars, drums, vocals, the lot.

shuutobi
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by shuutobi » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:24 am

spr1000 wrote:Great article shuutboi. I pretty much had a hunch that there would be no difference and it is truly about your mixing or mastering skills. Some of the greatest sounding music has been made on analog equipment. Not to mention they dealt with live mixing and destructive editing back then,so we should never make these comparisons when referencing sound.
An update: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 1#p1358481

It's insignificant. But there IS a difference.
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ilya.soloviev
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Re: Ableton has weak output..truth?

Post by ilya.soloviev » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:12 pm

The quality of sound engine is the last thing you need to worry about in your music career...
no offense but such topics makes me laugh

your weak output is your skills which you should worry about in first place

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