finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[agent314]

Yeah, I'm kind of getting the feeling betterbox is a shill

[HeadrickProductions]

just thinking here, there are alot of les paul and fender strat copies out there. its hard to believe that the makers of these copies are getting sued.

I think part of the *problem* here is that people genuinely expected something rather more interesting and innovative from Bitwig, not a derivative clone that's only USP is to overtly imitate Ableton while trying to implementing some frequent user requests before Ableton can.

checked out your soundclooud and always like to see classical trained folks.

Not sure if they've made it over there yet but have you gotten a chance to play the vintage vibe's boards. Sounds like the best rhodes ever and looks like a wurly. Unreal feel to em. Check'em out!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... fmVL2bipr0

new favorite toy

[massenmedium]

I do hope that Ableton have been able to (ha!) do a rewrite of some of the basic code. There's been time and for them it would not involve building new devices - just building a cleaner updated version of the main base. This really has to be a more important scenario for most existing users.

[i3igTripplets]

+ Does Bitwig Studio provide a full featured DAW that meets MY needs?

does ableton live provide a full featured daw? maybe with L9.. but as it is now without sysex support..timecode support.. surround support.. not yet really..

And a daw that meets your individual needs? i would say any daw or sequencer system that allows to get a finished track done is a possible competitor.. when the workflow supports your personla style or short commings..

at least bitwig promisses a more inteligent browser. In general they seem to be more workflow orientated than ableton that was allways more on the feature lust side of things

How stable is BW at this point?

[betterbox]

Yeah, I'm kind of getting the feeling betterbox is a shill

a what?

i kind of bitwig agent? they dont need that to get interest of ableton users.. its very close, so not alien.. but seems to add many things one was waiting for for a long time.. multitrack editing..wow... what a workflow boost and time safer..

with ableton and a 16 track recording you do any move 16 times !! and be very carefull to dont mess the content up.. in such a situation you will performthe same operation in bitwig in less than a 16th time .. that feature alone makes it.

[betterbox]

+ Does Bitwig Studio provide a full featured DAW that meets MY needs?

does ableton live provide a full featured daw? maybe with L9.. but as it is now without sysex support..timecode support.. surround support.. not yet really..

And a daw that meets your individual needs? i would say any daw or sequencer system that allows to get a finished track done is a possible competitor.. when the workflow supports your personla style or short commings..

at least bitwig promisses a more inteligent browser. In general they seem to be more workflow orientated than ableton that was allways more on the feature lust side of things

How stable is BW at this point?

?? how shall i know? when live came out it was wy more stable than it is now...

but i would expect a v1.0 to have some problems.. i guess it depends on the beta testers..as ableton they seem not be able to afford an intensive inhouse beta testing.. at leats ther are no job offers for professional beta testers.

[Angstrom]

I really can't tell whether you guys would prefer more Live-esque features at the expense of appearing like a "rip off," or sacrificing those features and their benefits In an attempt to make Bitwig Studio more original/unique.

I'm not sure if you can have it both ways.

I don't think it's the session view idea that has drawn criticism, its more the additional similarities even down to the terminology (clips, scenes, devices). There's no solid case for that.
I still occasionally call clips "patterns" because of my hardware past and I never heard of 'clips' being used in this context before Live, so why not "patterns", "pattern groups" (for scenes), why not "modules" for devices (as they do seem quite modular)

Weird similarity example
Then we could say: why is there a tiny device/editor lane at the bottom, sure you could choose put it down there when designing your app, but Live's tiny 170px high GUI is not really the best solution. It's OK for non-focused elements (EG, an EQ you aren't currently editing but like to glance at), but when focused on a task wouldn't you like something larger, with more accuracy, why not create a Coverflow style zoom/enlargement up to (for example) NI Massive's 670px height! Hey, why not allow multiple active device lanes and midi lanes to be visible, anywhere on the screen you like?
Is one small lane at the bottom really the only way to do it?

Somebody in here said (something like) "how could you ever do it differently?" I can tell you there are plenty of ways. If I was designing a performance DAW I'd be saying things like "our customers are on stage, or potentially on the other side of the studio hitting a hardware controller. So lets make each focused GUI element be able to go huge on (focus) demand, map that hugeness to a midi key or behavioural modifier".
I very much doubt I'd be spec'ing "our customers want to hunch over and squint at a tiny scrolling row which requires mouse/trackpad interaction". That's just one functional example out of many, and why many people are raising an eyebrow.

I think they did themselves a marketing disservice.
They worked hard for 3 years on a new product all their own, and now people think its so like Ableton Live that there are even conspiracy theories that it IS Ableton Live in disguise. Personally if I worked that hard on my own product I'd be wanting ME to get the plaudits, not my old employer!


I think they could have got more plaudits by deliberately using different terminology and an alternative layout strategy. They've apparently made a great thing, but rather than a brilliant looking version 1 software, people are actually discussing it as a pretty good version 9!


(BTW - I think it has the chance to be a stellar version 1, I just hope any IP issues can be cleared up)

[jer_mcclain]

There are some interesting features, admittedly, and I would like to demo it. However, its really going to have to blow me away in use for me to abandon all the time and money i've dumped into Live with Suite, M4L, APC40 not to mention a full blow Max license and those upgrades. I've been a Live user since 1.5 in 2002 and I don't think I can justify the move to another software especially one that is so similar to what I have now.

What is problematic for me is the tweet Ableton made this morning about soliciting usability testers and survey participants. I sure hope that L9 is past the specification stage. I guess that tweet should be taken a good sign that they are trying to get feedback and maybe has not much to do with L9.

[mholloway]

honestly the only shocking thing about the "copycat" approach is that a Live-Clone didn't show up sooner....

ableton has enjoyed being the idiosyncratic, unique thing it is for a full 8 versions (and three years on the last version, at that).

this was totally inevitable and I'm only shocked it didn't happen sooner.

maybe these bitwig guys did it right, maybe they didn't. too soon to call...

-M

[kb420]

checked out your soundclooud and always like to see classical trained folks.

Not sure if they've made it over there yet but have you gotten a chance to play the vintage vibe's boards. Sounds like the best rhodes ever and looks like a wurly. Unreal feel to em. Check'em out!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... fmVL2bipr0

new favorite toy

OMG!!!! That sounds great!!!!

[i3igTripplets]

?? how shall i know? when live came out it was wy more stable than it is now...

but i would expect a v1.0 to have some problems.. i guess it depends on the beta testers..as ableton they seem not be able to afford an intensive inhouse beta testing.. at leats ther are no job offers for professional beta testers.

Haha sorry couldn't resist. I look forward to trying the beta out as well; my minds not quite made up yet at this point.

[justchris86]

jeez, this is SO depressing.

i've been looking forward to bitwig thinking that we were going to get some sort of exciting new paradigm for creativity. but look at this, an unceremonious replica of Live. stuck in the audio domain like it is 2001. i mean, they should be embarrassed... it sort of feels like a bunch of angry kids.

I agree it looks like they sat on the ableton forum and took everything was missing and put it in here. The layout looks like ableton and logic had a baby.

[massenmedium]

I'm already working on a DJ oriented clone of this. It's going to be called You Big Moody Git.

[headquest]

checked out your soundclooud and always like to see classical trained folks.

Not sure if they've made it over there yet but have you gotten a chance to play the vintage vibe's boards. Sounds like the best rhodes ever and looks like a wurly. Unreal feel to em. Check'em out!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... fmVL2bipr0

new favorite toy

Awesome! Is it you in the video? Some fantastic sounds there, and great playing.

Thanks for listening to my stuff on Soundcloud too

[Tone Deft]

I can't play keys for siht but would LOVE to get a Rhodes of that caliber. a cat could walk on the keyboard and it would sound amazing. that guy's got a great touch.