finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[regretfullySaid]

It looks like a Reaper+FL+Live hybrid...
apart from the bottom device view it's not blatant, and I think that style would happen anyway.
Even though Ableton pwns the session view, it's not like it would be inevitable to come up with at this point.
I don't think there's much drama to be had form it.

Personally I don't care about skinning like reaper does.
It'd be nice if you can rearrange the ui; I like having the browser on the left, and I'd switch the session and arrange views and set it to the 85% zoom in 1:1 resolution....and switch the pallet...

Not swaying, but it's interesting...

Maybe that's why there aren't macro controls, and there won't be. Not necessarily because of legal (and that would make it a more of a blatant copy), but because they decided not to have em, and it'd be better to come up with their own way...

I just think they're starting with favorite parts they like...
most of it coming from Live...
with the improved workflow.

I'd prefer session in center and arrangement on left...

[Machinesworking]

I'm curious for sure, mostly to see if it's better suited for live performance than Live. My main gripe has been that Live sucks CPU up if you want to switch between VSTs and VSTi's in a performance, unlike Kore or Mainstage, Live has no way to switch whole tracks of FX and instruments via program changes without it taking CPU resources beyond the current armed track. It's OK with two instruments, beyond that it's going to be a mess.

If Bitwig Studio could reWire to Mainstage or Digital Performer and keep it's own VST's and VSTi's and was as stable as Live at least, that would get me to buy it.
The networking stuff makes me think they'll have CPU resource sharing between computers soon enough, which at the moment it seems only Vienna Ensemble Pro, Cubase, and Logic do.

[pheilus]

Ableton need to ditch the cloud sharing crap and serato bs and all the partner bs(more samples really?). and any other trendy bs.
Back to innovation, performance based, more time spent on session view.
live going more and more DAW is really bad and making it just another DAW.
Less DAW features more performance...

Are you all that lazy that you need everything and forgot the point of it being a live performance software, means you create music on the fly "real time"
And yes i understand workflow but some of the features requested is just outright silly.

[Machinesworking]

Ableton need to ditch the cloud sharing crap and serato bs and all the partner bs(more samples really?). and any other trendy bs.
Back to innovation, performance based, more time spent on session view.
live going more and more DAW is really bad and making it just another DAW.
Less DAW features more performance...

Are you all that lazy that you need everything and forgot the point of it being a live performance software, means you create music on the fly "real time"
And yes i understand workflow but some of the features requested is just outright silly.

Well it might just be that Bitwig and Live grow rapidly apart in this sense, time will tell.

[regretfullySaid]

//before what Machines said

and that goes with it not being a Live clone. It's more on the studio tip; it could be used live, but not like Live. Not having macros fits in with that. So I wouldn't expect the same hack-a-routibilty. Dummy clips, api...maybe some light scripting but if you're going to start over, why have it external? Midi/user remote script wise, might as well set that in the program...

[puzzlefactory]

Ableton need to ditch the cloud sharing crap and serato bs and all the partner bs(more samples really?). and any other trendy bs.
Back to innovation, performance based, more time spent on session view.
live going more and more DAW is really bad and making it just another DAW.
Less DAW features more performance...

Are you all that lazy that you need everything and forgot the point of it being a live performance software, means you create music on the fly "real time"
And yes i understand workflow but some of the features requested is just outright silly.

What's wrong with Live being a Performance tool AND a Daw? I like having both in one program. Also Daw's are expensive. If you're going to spend that sort of money on an application it preferable that it can be put to different uses.

[headquest]

What's wrong with Live being a Performance tool AND a Daw? I like having both in one program. Also Daw's are expensive. If you're going to spend that sort of money on an application it preferable that it can be put to different uses.

Totally agree. And this has been the vision Ableton pursued very successfully for several years. Obviously both performers and studio composers have a bunch of feature requests, and hopefully we will see many of these included in Live 9, just as in previous updates.

[8O]

Mornin', that's enough wild speculation about features, performance and personnel.

How about completely unfounded conjecture about price?

€99!

[pencilrocket]

Ableton need to ditch the cloud sharing crap and serato bs and all the partner bs(more samples really?). and any other trendy bs.
Back to innovation, performance based, more time spent on session view.
live going more and more DAW is really bad and making it just another DAW.
Less DAW features more performance...

Are you all that lazy that you need everything and forgot the point of it being a live performance software, means you create music on the fly "real time"
And yes i understand workflow but some of the features requested is just outright silly.

What's wrong with Live being a Performance tool AND a Daw? I like having both in one program. Also Daw's are expensive. If you're going to spend that sort of money on an application it preferable that it can be put to different uses.

No. Daw is rather inexpensive than DJ tool nowadays. Do you really know how much Serato or Traktor cost?

[Machinesworking]

What's wrong with Live being a Performance tool AND a Daw? I like having both in one program. Also Daw's are expensive. If you're going to spend that sort of money on an application it preferable that it can be put to different uses.

Nothing inherently 'wrong' with it, it's just that Live is a great composing tool, but I just don't see it as "surgical" like Logic, Cubase, DP etc. There are old school ideas that are great in many cases, but have little to do with electronic music or live performance that Logic and DP etc. have: SysEx, Event editors, Notation, tools, comping, destructive audio editing, advanced MIDI transform features, multiple automation write styles (Latch, Touch etc.), the list goes on. None of those features are important to a live performance, but some if not all are great for composition and mixdown. Thing is Live has a competent amount of those features now, IMO if you want the rest buy another DAW, otherwise it's this never ending wait for them to implement 'some' of those features. A better idea is IMO for Ableton to develop the live performance aspect of Live, to implement the good ideas from Kore and Mainstage and get into advanced Follow Actions for instance. Otherwise we'll see Bitwig realize this and become far more advanced as a live performance tool, since neither is going to 'beat' the features of the old school DAWs it's a redundant race to compete on that front IMO.

[condra]

Maybe
Bitwig will be to Live what Pixelmator is to Photoshop...
Almost as good, fraction of the price.

[c33]

BitWig hasn't even been released! Surely Live is as good of a performance tool (or a significantly better one) today than when it was first released.

Performance is still one of its core focuses and always will be, but they've branched out into other areas and will continue to in the future. Ableton's versatility is a big part of what makes it so brilliant. "The point" of Live depends on the user, and it's used for a multitude of reasons. I fail to see how that automatically equates to "lazy" and "needing everything."

[condra]

Dedicated hardware from Behringer.
There's a thought.

[wasoota]

Renoise has been dragging me away from Live. It's a tiny fraction of the functionality, but it does what it must where I need it when I'm tinkering. I've been wishing for a renoise-esque minimalist version of Live: Racks and clips, but e.g. allowing me to modulate any parameter by LFO without byying m4L. I'm not entirely sure Bitwig isn't a sanctioned spin-off of Ableton, designed to focus on the performance aspect while Live goes more Studio/DAW from now on, but whatever it is, if it is, I'll probably buy it. Live is awesome, but it's a monster.

[loydb]

As any coder will tell you, the code goes much faster -- and the quality is much higher -- the second time you write something from scratch I could totally see three serious have-no-life coders writing this from the ground up in three years if they'd already written a similar app in the past. At the low level that DAWs operate at, there are *huge* learning curves to get over in terms of multithreading, timing issues, sync, dealing with 3 gazillion different audio devices, etc. If they've already got that bit out of the way, and can sit down on day one with a good architecture design that they *know* will work, that probably saves them a man year or two...