finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[JuanSOLO]

I realized all you see in the bitwig trailer is mouse clicks. If the controller support is lacking in ANY way, and/or does not bring advancement, Live 8 will still be a no brainer.

[drummachiner]

Yeah Im right there with you JuanSOLO! Ive done all I can with customizing Nanokontrol Myr and using Cliphx. Considering Max4Live but I want more than that even. Like a built in GUI script maker.

[Machinesworking]

I realized all you see in the bitwig trailer is mouse clicks. If the controller support is lacking in ANY way, and/or does not bring advancement, Live 8 will still be a no brainer.

Hopefully they do better than Ableton in this regard. Would love to see Mainstage like ability in a full fledged DAW.

[JuanSOLO]

[Would love to see Mainstage like ability in a full fledged DAW.

What is Mainstage like ability? I am unfamiliar.

[Machinesworking]

[Would love to see Mainstage like ability in a full fledged DAW.

What is Mainstage like ability? I am unfamiliar.

Mainstage is set up for keyboard players and guitar players etc. to jump through whole configurations of AU's both instruments and FX with simple program changes.
Using Inter Application MIDI in OSX I was able to rapidly change total configurations from Msssive to Absynth to Zebra with FX etc. on quarter note Follow Action set up clips in Live with barely a glitch. This is on a four plus year old Macbook Pro. Basically you can use all the resources of your CPU etc. quickly because Mainstage doesn't act like every plug in in the chain is active and manages to instantiate it in less than a quarter second. To do something similar in Live would be a complex mess and would only work in a certain firing order, as on/off states for plug ins are considered just that for each clip.

[JuanSOLO]

Interesting, so in someways is it like what Kore does using performance presets?

[User of Live]

Maybe a bad way to enter in for not having post before but here's what I have to ask.

Why do people keep saying things like competition is a good and much needed thing?
Historically the best movements have come from someone doing something different not copying or cloning.
For some reason the world has developed this aspect of adding some additional features or tweaking a GUI of an existing product causes the existing product to do things differently.

If we do a rewind to the arrival of LIVE and Reason they were both new and different from what others were offering.
This allowed both to find their place.

Nothing wrong with Bitwig wanted to compete with LIVE or people hoping Bitwig will have iron out LIVE, BUT trying to do it in LIVE's clothing is not being innovative.

I just as soon wait for Ableton to deliver.

I just hope that when LIVE 9 does arrive that what we have in offerings for controllers increases as well.
Even with it's failings the APC40 does help with using LIVE.

What will Bitwig offer us for controllers?
That alone has a major impact on the two.

[stringtapper]

I just as soon wait for Ableton to deliver.

That's the entire concept behind "competition being a good thing." It means that if Ableton has competition it may force them to innovate further and do even better work. So when people say that about competition they're not necessarily saying they want Bitwig, but rather that they can't wait to see what Ableton does in response to it. Understand?

[condra]

Why do people keep saying things like competition is a good and much needed thing?

Because competition drives prices down, encourages customer focussed business, and offers the consumer more choice.

Historically the best movements have come from someone doing something different not copying or cloning.

Really?
Even if what you say about “movements” is true, that doesn’t mean something which is a refinement, (rather than an innovation) can not be brilliant in its own right. It could be argued that historically some of the best products have been improvements on other peoples inventions or ideas.

If we do a rewind to the arrival of LIVE and Reason they were both new and different from what others were offering.
This allowed both to find their place.

If we do a rewind to the arrival of Sonic The Hedgehog, it was just like Mario, only way more awesome.
As a consumer, I don’t give a rats ass about some romantic concept of programmer integrity or brand loyalty. I want the best shit, for as little as I can pay.

Bitwig sure does look a lot like Live, and this is great news for me because I love the Session View way of working. And if Ableton can’t get their shit together to give us things like dual monitor support, maybe Bitwig will be the kick up the arse they need.

Nothing wrong with Bitwig wanted to compete with LIVE or people hoping Bitwig will have iron out LIVE, BUT trying to do it in LIVE's clothing is not being innovative.

and?
We shouldn’t buy a product that isn’t 100% unique?

I love Ableton Live, but if something comes along that is better, and cheaper, and friendlier, I’m there.

Bitwig are already winning the PR war, simply by communicating. Somewhere between Live 6 and 7, Ableton seemed to lose their community spirit, their sense of humour, and their personal touch. They’ve gone from being this cool handful of studio guys, to this tight-lipped, Apple-like control-freak corporation.

Right, back to my Live set.
God I love Operator..

[HeadrickProductions]

Maybe a bad way to enter in for not having post before but here's what I have to ask.

Why do people keep saying things like competition is a good and much needed thing?
Historically the best movements have come from someone doing something different not copying or cloning.

Very simple. Since you just jumped on board you were fortunate to miss the release of live 8 which was basically unsable. This would have been very hard to do with a company like bitwig already around because people would have jumped ship. Also it allows ableton to become complacent in innovation/fixing bugs, and implementing the features that users have asked for. Also the cost of live is quite high at the moment and direct competition should bring that down. Even if i never try bitwig, their presence (assuming that they don't fail immediately) is great for all live users because it causes Ableton to have to work that much harder to keep their customers.

this is why i am excited to see what live 9 has instore because they will send a clear message that they are at the top of their game.

Time will tell

Iphone was not the first smart phone, but they took features and really hit it out of the park. On the flip side so many companies tried to make an ipod and they failed. Will just have to see which way bitwig goes.

[JuanSOLO]

.....some of the best products have been improvements on other peoples inventions or ideas.

Radio and TV would be a prime example.

God I love Operator..

No doubt!

[drummachiner]

Competition wouldn't even have to mean a winner and a loser. Based on what little we know right now,it could be that these guys want to go in a more live + studio DAW direction. Maybe Ableton wants to go in a more hardcore "Live"performance direction. That would be fine with me. Who knows. Cant wait to see what Ableton does next.

[JuanSOLO]

Competition wouldn't even have to mean a winner and a loser. Based on what little we know right now,it could be that these guys want to go in a more live + studio DAW direction. Maybe Ableton wants to go in a more hardcore "Live"performance direction. That would be fine with me. Who knows. Cant wait to see what Ableton does next.

Thats kind of what I was hoping to see, or vise versa. Personally I'd rather Bitwig fall in line with all the guys wanting more "Pro DAW" features, and Live to become more and more about performance workflow.

[Tarekith]

Too late for that IMO, it'll probably be the other way around.

[humnumb]

Maybe a bad way to enter in for not having post before but here's what I have to ask.

^ Doubtful.