finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[supamonsta]

I'm interested to see what will be Bitwig in terms of MIDI edition and handling... sysex? edition tools? routing between vsts, hardware... Because if it's better than live (live being a bit loose in the midi department IMO), I'll check it for sure, but for now, nothing said about bitwig's midi abilities...


cheers

[friend_kami]

It's not even worth debating with you because you cannot keep a coherent argument going.
Not trying to be rude, just observing.

What exactly is your point?

You say Bitwig is a clone but Android is not. That, my friend makes not a bit of sense.
There is no escape from that lack of logic.

So you can't make your standpoint clealy because of lacking of the concrete thinking.

Do you understand the meaning of the post I did. I said Making nearly 1:1 poduct of other perticular product is called cloning here. Using and implimenting other companys' ideas for their one product in deffernt way is common.

Copying nealy 1:1 product is sued by the others. Okay? Android have been law case. Because Apple thought Google copied design of one of their code. Not iOS or product.

If it was whole product how would it be? Needless to say.

but an android phone and the android os is pretty much a straight copy of iOS, while Bitwig studio only has some things that live has, such as the clip view. it also has other daw features you would expect from a daw, did they plagiarise them too? like recording audio? actually having an interface perhaps?

cmon man, it's not a plagiarised product, it's just lending some of the design for it's own take on it. ios vs android though, that could possibly be considered plagiarism because it acts, behaves and looks almost exactly the same and it has the exact same features as well. i find it pretty entertaining that you say that people doesn't understand what plagiarism is, though you are still blind enough to not see that the andriod operating system and the iphone operating system is much much much more alike than live vs bitwig studio.

perhaps, and i'm just throwing this out here, perhaps you don't understand what plagiarism is?
for me, people copying designs from other developers is not a problem. imagine what the world would be like if it was a big (legal) problem. we would have one daw, and we would have one plugin.

oh dear.

[User of Live]

Maybe a bad way to enter in for not having post before but here's what I have to ask.

Why do people keep saying things like competition is a good and much needed thing?
Historically the best movements have come from someone doing something different not copying or cloning.

Very simple. Since you just jumped on board you were fortunate to miss the release of live 8 which was basically unsable. This would have been very hard to do with a company like bitwig already around because people would have jumped ship. Also it allows ableton to become complacent in innovation/fixing bugs, and implementing the features that users have asked for. Also the cost of live is quite high at the moment and direct competition should bring that down. Even if i never try bitwig, their presence (assuming that they don't fail immediately) is great for all live users because it causes Ableton to have to work that much harder to keep their customers.

this is why i am excited to see what live 9 has instore because they will send a clear message that they are at the top of their game.

Time will tell

Iphone was not the first smart phone, but they took features and really hit it out of the park. On the flip side so many companies tried to make an ipod and they failed. Will just have to see which way bitwig goes.

I'm only new to the forum not LIVE. I was introduced to LIVE when LIVE Lite Digidesign version shipped with my DIGI001 factory.
I upgrades to the full version and played around through version 5, 6 and 7.
I didn't start truly getting any real use out of LIVE as a real tool until I paired LIVE 8 with the APC40.

If you used any of the Windows mobile phones like the MotoQ etc then you understand why the iPhone locked the market down.

There are benefits to competition, the problem is that we seem to live in a world where cloning or copying is considered competition.
It's very questionable as to what you can expect from someone using someone else's design as there own.
If you were going to compete with LIVE feature wise then you could at least do it with your own layout, far too much is copied from LIVE.

[cmusicmaker]

I think BW Studio is a very interesting development. I would say there is probably a big enough market for BWS and Ableton Live to co - exist and do well.

[Saxer]

might it be that the foundation of bitwig is the reason for the absence of live 9?

[headquest]

might it be that the foundation of bitwig is the reason for the absence of live 9?

IIRC there are actually two junior programmers from Ableton who are involved with Bitwig, while the Ableton staff has grown in the last couple of years from around 100 people to 130... including a pretty hefty development team.

[cmusicmaker]

might it be that the foundation of bitwig is the reason for the absence of live 9?

Might be. Maybe Ableton needed time to replace the devs that left. Clearly they had the capability to build a daw from scratch and perhaps formed the core of the dev application team at Ableton (or at least a significant part of it). I doubt though as has been mentioned on this thread that Ableton are funding it or that BWS is really Live 9. BWS might be what many want Live 9 to be or some of the features might be highly desirable for many Live users but I don't think Ableton are in this deal personally.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Live 9 could well be released before BWS ships as the beta for BWS has not started yet. Also the similarities might not seem that much should Live 9 get a UI overhaul (maybe)

[Hermanus]

We are here on ableton forum so everyone is focused on the ableton Live features compared to bw studio.
maybe it gathers features from cubase, reason, protools, Live, reaper, etc whatever? We really don't know.
And if their challenge was to develop a DAW that gathers the good points from those well in place and mostly used?
This is my guess

I cant judge and make my opinion on screeshots and a tiny video which shows ... well nothing!
Modular thing is great, too bad it will not be implemented on v1.0
They re introduced the SHARE feature, will it be efficient? I don't know and I have to admit I don't miss this feature in live so I personaly don't care about it
I'm on the list and I hope I could try the beta.
Then this bw will surely not stop me from using ableton and a fresh purchased M4L with all goodness from it.

Cheers and long live to every'one'daw'as long as users enjoy, what matters

[JuanSOLO]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Live 9 could well be released before BWS ships as the beta for BWS has not started yet.

based on the tweet from Ableton about testing, I dont think Ableton have a Live 9 beta yet.

[cmusicmaker]

might it be that the foundation of bitwig is the reason for the absence of live 9?

IIRC there are actually two junior programmers from Ableton who are involved with Bitwig, while the Ableton staff has grown in the last couple of years from around 100 people to 130... including a pretty hefty development team.

If it really was only two then lower dev numbers (even temporarily) are out as a reason for no Live 9

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Live 9 could well be released before BWS ships as the beta for BWS has not started yet.

based on the tweet from Ableton about testing, I dont think Ableton have a Live 9 beta yet.

Could be some time then before Live 9 surfaces.

[jer_mcclain]

If you read under the blurb about the Ableton Hackathon, there are 30 developers.

http://www.ableton.com/pages/company/developer_life

[headquest]

But here the developers are separate from the support staff and product specialists, artist development, etc. And with ten developers for every one Bitwig developer they would have to pretty seriously drop the ball to be overtaken....

[JuanSOLO]

Could be some time then before Live 9 surfaces.

I am fairly certain they have something in the works or they would have not tweeted that, but as to what stage it's in, I am gonna guess it's not as far along as bitwig. My hopes would be thats because they wanna do things right and have thought about the long term future in response to the "adding automation to session would mean a complete rewrite" I would hope they want to provide a Live 9 that overwhelms the community with excitement and SOLID features that again raises the bar. Seems that's more a matter of choice if they want to, not so much if they can.

[headquest]

Could be some time then before Live 9 surfaces.

I am fairly certain they have something in the works or they would have not tweeted that, but as to what stage it's in, I am gonna guess it's not as far along as bitwig. My hopes would be thats because they wanna do things right and have thought about the long term future in response to the "adding automation to session would mean a complete rewrite" I would hope they want to provide a Live 9 that overwhelms the community with excitement and SOLID features that again raises the bar. Seems that's more a matter of choice if they want to, not so much if they can.

I hope you are right about this - and I believe it will prove so. Some of the main FR of the last few years genuinely rely on a major rewrite - dual screen support, vst automation in Session clips, 64-bit support, etc. Live 8 is quite a complete product in terms of their original vision, and I feel sure that these past years have been spent, at least in part, reworking Live for the future. I would not be suprised if the next version is a complete new programme ...

[Machinesworking]

Again, Studio Vision had "clips" you could launch before Live did, which is Live's main big innovation selling point.

I think there's still a gap between taking 1 or 2 significant elements to build upon and develop something of your own or just take like +80% and add a few obvious new features..
The features that make it different are pretty much all user requests from this forum and could be on Ableton's roadmap as well, we don't know..

Anyway.. Only the future will tell if BW has a distinctive vision from which it will develop as something different or just stays in a clone realm..

So because LIve users want the features that Live doesn't have that make Bitwig different than Live, somehow that makes it irrelevant that Bitwig has unique features???
As an end user I simply cannot give credit for my user requests to a company that does not implement them.

I'm really kind of shocked at this one, that Bitwig implemented long held user requests is seen as copying LIve because Live could get them in the future?