finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[siliconarc]

.
this is how BW describes it..

An audio clip can contain multiple audio events.
You can chop and edit audio files inside a clip non-destructively and loop it all as a package.

I read that before, I guess it just puzzles my imagination somwhat. To me it seems to indicate a new idea of what a clip actually is. GEEZ so curious about this freaking beta, SO many questions.

say you have lots of little clips edited into a phrase in Live's arrange view. you're then able to group these little clips into a container clip so you can fire it as a normal clips when dragged into session, without having to consolidate.

Angstrom was asking for this years ago...
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27826

[JuanSOLO]

right, like group tracks only group clips. I get it, I just need to see it or work with it to really understand, other than that I feel like I get lost in speculation and assumptions about what it may or may not really do.

[simmerdown]

i wonder how BWs sound output will compare with Live, there will need to be some tests.

(no i didnt, yes i did)

[JuanSOLO]

Well lots of big shot producers making crap top ten tunes say bitwig sounds better.

[simmerdown]

output quality, and whether bw can keep third party vsts properly synched seem to be the elephant in the room, innit

[headquest]

Well lots of big shot producers making crap top ten tunes say bitwig sounds better.

LOL

[Machinesworking]

sigh, read my comments in the right perspective will you?.. clone or not, judged objectively, that was the issue at hand..
I did not say anything about not being innovative enough for me personally or who actually owns requests..

Well, if you think that features requested of Live are to be considered part of Abletons cache of possible innovations, then I read you right.
If not, then it's your wording that brought me to that conclusion, not my misunderstanding of your thought process. I can't know what you think, only what you write.

[Machinesworking]

.
this is how BW describes it..

An audio clip can contain multiple audio events.
You can chop and edit audio files inside a clip non-destructively and loop it all as a package.

I read that before, I guess it just puzzles my imagination somwhat. To me it seems to indicate a new idea of what a clip actually is. GEEZ so curious about this freaking beta, SO many questions.

I'm hoping that it also works with MIDI, but that seems a long shot. Digital Performer has this sort of endless nesting in Chunks, but it's very very possible for an upstart like Bitwig to make it even more streamlined! Seriously, think of this idea taken further, a clip that holds an entire break, a sort of macro clip. That, to me would be beyond useful. To put in simpler a Scene in Live, but worked out in arrange and enclosed in a clip! Folders in Logic 'sort' of work like that, but they're clumsy at best.

[skatr2]

Kinda strange the reactions here. A whole lot of people overreacting to how it looks, both from the camp of those who complain it looks too much like ableton to those who want to jump ship JUST based on how it looks. A different GUI isnt gonna make the software...just something to make you need to relearn a workflow. But the appearance of a product is simply a covering to make people at ease with what they're doing. I look at some VST software with crazy backgrounds and GUIs and I wonder why they had to pay somebody to draw and make it and think about the time wasted to set the capabilities within its boundaries. Ableton stuck with a simplified setup that not only let anyone understand everything that was occurring, but also allowing a LOT of custumizability for the power users. As such I would expect a live competitor to look at least somewhat similar (though I'm not really keen on the flow going left to right on the session part of BW).

Many will argue plagiarism here...but as pointed earlier...when you set a trend standard...the industry will go that direction regardless. Many people had MP3 players, tablets, and GUI handheld devices before apple....until they simplified the GUI and made it more user friendly...thus setting the trend. As other companies copied the ideas and improved, this forced apple to improve theirs too (note the task bar apple has now that started on android). Where apple fails to really sue these companies is they use their own code, likely like BW did. And generally I am disgusted when apple tries to block products on designs and shapes...like when they sued samsung because their tablet was "rectangular shaped with a black border".

I think where ableton will hold the market for the immediate future is in its access to third party controllers. Its current standard will keep those companies from risking capital on a new startup for dedicated controllers. Hell it took ableton 7 versions before akai came out with the apc. Short of getting immediate functionality to those controllers already on the market, bitwig will likely have a slow start for a lot of us in the performance market. Most people enamored here are because its something new and shiny to play with. But most I imagine don't expect BW to launch a revolution. Not sure the use you get out of ableton MW, but so far I have yet to see ableton let me or anyone I know down in a live environment. But we all have different needs I guess.

[LoopStationZebra]

There had better be iOS support/crazy great controller app on DAY ONE.

[mholloway]

Kinda strange the reactions here. A whole lot of people overreacting to how it looks, both from the camp of those who complain it looks too much like ableton to those who want to jump ship JUST based on how it looks. A different GUI isnt gonna make the software...just something to make you need to relearn a workflow.

Most folks are discussing / conjecturing about the product's *specific functionality* based on the screenshots and the various devices, tools and workflow presented therein. I don't think anybody here is saying they would jump ship because the GUI looks neat.

-M

[Machinesworking]

Kinda strange the reactions here. A whole lot of people overreacting to how it looks, both from the camp of those who complain it looks too much like ableton to those who want to jump ship JUST based on how it looks. A different GUI isnt gonna make the software...just something to make you need to relearn a workflow.

Most folks are discussing / conjecturing about the product's *specific functionality* based on the screenshots and the various devices, tools and workflow presented therein. I don't think anybody here is saying they would jump ship because the GUI looks neat.

-M

Werd! On top of the specific advantages over Live that I like: dual monitor support, plug in crash protection, bundled audio in clips and Linux support, it will have to also have a decent workflow and stability to make me even think of jumping ship. It would be my 5th or 6th Sequencer so I'm not in any rush!

Personally I think it looks like ass, but I've never been much of a fan of Live's look either. The only DAW I kind of liked the look of was Logic 4, flat and army green with a future retro sort of look. DP looks good now too with the Themes bit, much better than the skins in Live which suffer from certain graphic elements being tied together thereby making a truly dark skin unusable. Logic 4 had the ability to hide nearly every on screen button and to do away with the transport entirely if you wanted. Full minimal.

[simmerdown]

i think it looks Frooty

live looks badass, esp with a fresh skin on, like blacklight

[pencilrocket]

It's not even worth debating with you because you cannot keep a coherent argument going.
Not trying to be rude, just observing.

What exactly is your point?

You say Bitwig is a clone but Android is not. That, my friend makes not a bit of sense.
There is no escape from that lack of logic.

So you can't make your standpoint clealy because of lacking of the concrete thinking.

Do you understand the meaning of the post I did. I said Making nearly 1:1 poduct of other perticular product is called cloning here. Using and implimenting other companys' ideas for their one product in deffernt way is common.

Copying nealy 1:1 product is sued by the others. Okay? Android have been law case. Because Apple thought Google copied design of one of their code. Not iOS or product.

If it was whole product how would it be? Needless to say.

but an android phone and the android os is pretty much a straight copy of iOS, while Bitwig studio only has some things that live has, such as the clip view. it also has other daw features you would expect from a daw, did they plagiarise them too? like recording audio? actually having an interface perhaps?

cmon man, it's not a plagiarised product, it's just lending some of the design for it's own take on it. ios vs android though, that could possibly be considered plagiarism because it acts, behaves and looks almost exactly the same and it has the exact same features as well. i find it pretty entertaining that you say that people doesn't understand what plagiarism is, though you are still blind enough to not see that the andriod operating system and the iphone operating system is much much much more alike than live vs bitwig studio.

perhaps, and i'm just throwing this out here, perhaps you don't understand what plagiarism is?
for me, people copying designs from other developers is not a problem. imagine what the world would be like if it was a big (legal) problem. we would have one daw, and we would have one plugin.

oh dear.

I don't have any feeling on them. There are objectively so much factor that we can say they are plagiarism. Will you ask where? Read this thread from page 1.

Why can you say that I don't understand what plagiarism is even though you can't at least understand what I told?

Did legal competitors design their device exacly same design as iPhone or iOS? If so, haven't they been sued by Apple?

That is the point. Making nearly 1:1 poduct of other perticular product is called cloning here.

Copying nealy 1:1 product is sued by the others. Okay? Android have been law case. Because Apple thought Google copied design of one of their code. Not iOS or product.

If it was whole product how would it be? Needless to say.

Shall I continue?

[Machinesworking]

Shall I continue?

No!

Laps in logic again. You look at screenshots of Bitwig Studio and Live, come to the conclusion in your own "logic" that Ableton would win a future lawsuitthat has yet to happen. Looking at the same screenshots of Bitwig, without having used the product and only knowing a very tiny amount about it you've decided that the similarities are deeper than Android VS iPhone.... the mind boggles at your lack of objective critical thinking? How do you do it?