Is Session View counterproductive?

[mholloway]

I understand the OP problem.

Try this : get something interesting in session view, get a rought idea of what you want. Then record! And then work on the arrangment view. Your problem is that you spend too much time on the session view and get stuck in it. Instead of doing 70% in session and 30 in arrangment, do the other way arround. And actually you will
Spend less time on your project because you'll go faster.

It's the same story with midi/audio. Try to go audio to commit ASAP and move on.

This is good advice. I'm always thinking I need to basically have all the pieces of the song 100% in Session before I simply "lay them out in order" in Arrangement, but really this often results in the "getting stuck" you mention. If I could shift my mindset to think of it more 50-50, moving things to arrangement earlier with the intention of still perfecting them there, it might conceivably speed up the overall process and get me un-stuck from session as often. Cool beans.

-M

[Poster]

I don't think I can ever go back to something without some sort of grid view..
not only for all obvious non-linear reasons but also; where would you store all the content you're not using but don't want to store deep down on your HD either?

if anything Ableton should make sure we're spending even more time in Session by allowing to edit multiple sound sources inside one clip..
then we wouldn't have this thread..

[icedsushi]

where would you store all the content you're not using but don't want to store deep down on your HD either?

Exactly, this is probably my most important use for session view. Having everything handy to be able to inject & record into arrangement view in an instant without interruption digging in folders for samples. It's a real time saver if you use it wisely & keep from too much noodling around.

I think when people get hung up spending too much time in session view it's because they get far enough to the point of working up their entire arrangement there (pseudo arrangements via scenes) & don't move to the arrangement view soon enough. Forget about spending too much time on scenes during the composition process. You don't have to spend time making scenes out of all your clips just because the feature is there. Take bits of the arrangement afterwards & make scenes out of that if you need them. Try making sessions from parts of your arrangement rather than the other way around & see if that makes more sense. Don't get stuck out of routine feeling you need to follow the same process & order of events to get from point A to point B.

It's probably best to alternate as well & use arrangement right from the beginning sometimes. Try that rather than starting in session every time thinking there must be an exact point (after you're happy with what you've got) where everything must "switch" gears & transfer over to the arrangement view. It doesn't have to be the same pattern every time that you have a preconceived notion is most efficient. Mix up the workflow sometimes, try things a way your'e not used to & have fun. One thing I'm going to start doing is starting in arrangement, and dragging the tasty bits into session view after that. Try using session view as kind of a sample storage bin to use in your arrangement rather than "arranging" everything & feeling the need they all must always be organized into scenes, just because they reside next to each other.

Don't think of them as being so separate, try to flip back & forth a lot & fill up both views. That's the way a lot of happy accidents occur.

[bartend7]

I believe session view is the best part of live. if you dont like it you'd probably enjoy another DAW a little better.
And thinking about music horizontally or vertically?!! I'd rather think about music like a circle.
has anyone noticed that people that try to explain 'how to write music" usually have lame music?

[HorusProject]

has anyone noticed that people that try to explain 'how to write music" usually have lame music?

true

[simmerdown]

false....not usually anyway, sometimes...many great producers kindly share their knowledge

[bartend7]

i didnt mean people who share knowledge... i meant people that try to explain step by step how to write music. sharing knowledge is a great thing and i've learned alot from people sharing their knowledge. but the people that believe they have a system or a correct method for writing music.. they suck... when i read or hear interviews with great composers and they are asked "how do you write a song" they usually say it varies, changes, or is not the same every time. I believe it has to do with inspiration, not methodology. thats my opinion, take it or leave it.

[doghouse]

It's probably best to alternate as well & use arrangement right from the beginning sometimes. Try that rather than starting in session every time

I do this a lot...I'll just jam some tracks for 15-20 minutes in arrangement view, go to session view, chop up the recordings into clips, jam the clips to get a feel for what's working as a song, finally I record the clips into a new arrangement.

There's so many ways to use Live thanks to the two views interacting.

[simmerdown]

this thread should have been titled SESSION VIEW IS SO PRODUCTIVE

bc, c'mon..counterproductive? no

[bartend7]

I understand it's your opinion but what I don't understand is why you're saying it.

Who here is explaining step by step how to write music?

Its not a step by step, and I shouldn't have wrote that. I was trying to differentiate between those sharing a methodology and those sharing knowledge (the latter of which was not brought up by me). I'm all for knowledge sharing, not so much for people telling me how to make something as subjective as art.
Please allow me rephrase. I usually dont like music made by those who believe there is a method of how to compose (or develop) it.

In the article you linked the author assumes there are 2 for developing songs, horizontal and vertical as the author states..
"Looking at it this way, there are really two ways to approach this"......
then
"Whichever approach you take, you have to force yourself to break out of the two or four or eight bar loop. You have to start thinking in sections, start thinking about organising these sections to form a song. "

The author assumes only 2 methods of the development of music and that one or either method must be used. It is also assumed that using short loops for musical development is invalid. So a methodology for the development (compostion) of music is a apparent.

[simmerdown]

[Tone Deft]

using Live for Arrange view only is like owning a Ferrari to just store things in the glove compartment.

from what I can tell Arrange view sucks infected donkey dick compared to what othe DAWs offer. just using Live in general from Arrange view is a pain in the ass not to mention the APC's red box is excluded from that view.

I do all my work in Clip view.

[Poster]

using Live for Arrange view only is like owning a Ferrari to just store things in the glove compartment.

car analogies ftw..

[Tone Deft]

people love car analogies like they love electric cars. they sound like a great idea but in the end they're a ham fisted solution to a bigger problem and they're mostly used by self righteous clueless assholes.

oh wait...

[simmerdown]

but, session view only? idk

that'd be like redlining in first, bitch slappin it strait up to 5th, backing it up and spilling your big gulp, then....never mind