Does it matter if a bunch of grouped tracks go above 0 dB?

[Komodovaran]

None of the grouped tracks go above 0 dB, individually. The master output isn't going above 0 either.

So does it matter if a group of tracks are going above 0, or is it simply a way of summing up the total volume?

[esky]

Check this:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... tored.html

[3dot...]

as long as the group isn't going to physical outputs..I'd say it's ok.. Live's internal dynamic range is huge..
if you're arranging and not mixing.. and don't want to be bothered with tweaking volumes..
I'd say it's safe..just lower the volume ..or have a limiter for the physical outs...

when mixing..
why not keep it in the 0db limit ?
going over 0db (the red) should indicate a track is misbehaving..

[Rinsemeister]

Check this:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... tored.html

Some serious shit in that thread.........try reading all of it

[H20nly]

^ would you recommend starting on page 143 and working to page 1 or starting on page 1 and working to page 143?




as long as the master is not in the red (add your other tracks aren't going to outputs besides the master) then you should be fine. it's about your ears at that point. once the master starts clipping then you are in the zone for noise on your final mixdown.**

**note i'm referring to Ableton Live's behavior here not "other DAWS"

[esky]

^ would you recommend starting on page 143 and working to page 1 or starting on page 1 and working to page 143?

For a start just read the first article. An important point is that emulations of vintage gear also model the input behaviour of the original unit. If you overpower them they sound shit.
When you finished all 143 pages go on with all pages about the Slate VCC and the Sonimus Satson plugin....

[Tone Deft]

like those guys said, tracks can go into the red they have just over 60dB of headroom. the MASTER should NEVER go into the red.

[Komodovaran]

when mixing..
why not keep it in the 0db limit ?
going over 0db (the red) should indicate a track is misbehaving..

The thing is, no single track goes above 0 dB, but when I group then with Cmd+G to clear up the clutter, the groups are going above 0 dB.

Master output is never above 0 dB.

No grouping. No signal goes above 0 dB.


Grouping. Everything crosses 0 dB.


So basically, the red is only meant as a visual indicator of "this track is above 0 dB, careful not to clip your master channel"?

[H20nly]

^yes essentially.

Live can handle it. Tone Deft might remember how high Live can go into the red on internal tracks (not the master). i think it was dom (from Ableton support) that told us in a thread a couple of years back. it's a high number. a really high number.

[Tone Deft]

IIRC they said 63 dB but corrected themselves with 62db, something like that.

the numbers don't matter as much as setting things up right and getting good gain staging. if that's a new topic to anyone head over to Tarekith's guides, I believe there's one on that topic.

http://tarekith.com/assets/DigitalLevels.html

[fax]

http://www.wiretotheear.com/2008/01/25/ ... er-at-0db/

[H20nly]

IIRC they said 63 dB but corrected themselves with 62db, something like that.

yep. i remember is being in the 60's too. it's funkin high what ever it is.

[3dot...]

the red says "you're track is unnecessarily loud.. in relation to the output(physical) volume overhead"...
it gives you(the mixing dude) reference..
to get additional reference one could also use peak/rms values.. spectrum analysers etc.

you can mix without looking at the meters.. in this case.. you should only worry about clipping the master/physical outputs

btw..
dynamic ranges :
8bit = 48dB
16bit = 96dB
24bit = 120dB
32bit = 192dB
48bit = 288dB
64bit = 385dB

human hearing range : approx. 120dB

also keep in mind that a 'group' track is essentially a summing track(like a master) so all volumes will be added..
one of the tracks there is looking mighty compressed at 0db (limiter ?)..
so adding to that will bring the signal out (obviously) over the 0db line..
this is all fine and dandy until it reaches hw outputs.. where you HAVE TO lower the volume..
this is why it's good practice to watch the levels..and do it before.. gives for finer-tuning..

all this is mostly relevant only in the mixing stage... not when composing/arranging

[H20nly]

^ i like that explanation.

"the mixing dude reference" - nice

[3dot...]

the dude abides ???