Agree w/3dot.
One small addition - Ive noticed that some VSTs act funny when the input is above 0db (according to Live). I usually put a Utility in before the VST if that's the case. Personally I try to keep my levels under 0db, if only to make the metering easier to read.
Does it matter if a bunch of grouped tracks go above 0 dB?
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filterstein
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:14 pm
Re: Does it matter if a bunch of grouped tracks go above 0 dB?
Yes, regardless what live can handle this is the main reason to keep levels safe.pgmjsd wrote:
One small addition - Ive noticed that some VSTs act funny when the input is above 0db (according to Live). I usually put a Utility in before the VST if that's the case. Personally I try to keep my levels under 0db, if only to make the metering easier to read.
Gain staging is still important and you won't loose anything by keeping your levels at -6 or lower.
So if high levels sometimes damage yor sound and low levels won't harm, the choice should be obvious.
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theophilus
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:54 pm
Re: Does it matter if a bunch of grouped tracks go above 0 dB?
that's one thing i really love about live... you get a meter at pretty much every interface, so if you go red in the middle of a channel between two fx, you can see it and fix it (and you should, even within a channel)...
which is an important note, maybe... it's not about going to an external device, per se. But internally ableton is probably using floating point... in any case, big numbers, more than 24 bits worth. But your interface is only 24 bits - it has to be converted to be able to hear it. If the FP # represents a value higher than the 24 bits you're outputting... you just (digitally) overdrove it. Outputs are obvious, but any time a VST has this limitation, it will have the same hit - so this limitation could be anywhere in the channel, or even INSIDE the VST if it's clipping there instead.
Anytime you are in live's space (like a group track, which is channels mixing inside live's mixer) going into the red is perfectly safe - you won't get any distortion. However, anytime you actually hit a barrier that requires the int conversion, whereever it is, you'll get distortion if it's trying values over 0dbfs (max output). So don't do that.
which is an important note, maybe... it's not about going to an external device, per se. But internally ableton is probably using floating point... in any case, big numbers, more than 24 bits worth. But your interface is only 24 bits - it has to be converted to be able to hear it. If the FP # represents a value higher than the 24 bits you're outputting... you just (digitally) overdrove it. Outputs are obvious, but any time a VST has this limitation, it will have the same hit - so this limitation could be anywhere in the channel, or even INSIDE the VST if it's clipping there instead.
Anytime you are in live's space (like a group track, which is channels mixing inside live's mixer) going into the red is perfectly safe - you won't get any distortion. However, anytime you actually hit a barrier that requires the int conversion, whereever it is, you'll get distortion if it's trying values over 0dbfs (max output). So don't do that.
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filterstein
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:14 pm
Re: Does it matter if a bunch of grouped tracks go above 0 dB?
as mentioned by others, you'll be absolutely fine. in situations like this i've always felt that a simple test is always well worth the 10 mins it will take to help prove or disprove others statements.
one 8 bar render with your current settings, another with the gains adjusted so the group doesn't go into the red and the master output adjusted to match the level from the 1st render.
put the 2 renders back into live...what do you hear?
i'm not saying you have to do this, it's just my approach...
one 8 bar render with your current settings, another with the gains adjusted so the group doesn't go into the red and the master output adjusted to match the level from the 1st render.
put the 2 renders back into live...what do you hear?
i'm not saying you have to do this, it's just my approach...