Break Beat loop recreation - HELP WANTED!

[Bad Lieutenant]

Hi to all the production experts out here - I have a seriously frustrating issue, which I hope you can help out with.

There is an old break beat which I absolutely love, mainly for the style which uses reverb, bass etc. But it is that *airy* warehouse sound which was around in the early 90's and then disappeared.

I have tried and tried but mine just sounds very hard and moody - and not close.

I would really be grateful if somebody could help recreate this break in Ableton and show me the settings (perhaps share the file etc)

Link to the original break loop and my effort [https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1354544132/1 ... 17e5566577]

Look forward to any help.

Regards

[Angstrom]

your version is way too reverby, the reverb is both too large and too high in the mix. The reason is you aren't listening objectively - you have focused on what you think is the key facet of that sound and tried to bring it to the fore.

Obviously the original beat used a more boxy kick than the pokey number you are using so you wont get that 'breaks' sound with a 'drum machine' style kick.
The timing of your break is a little off, but if you are after sound advice that's neither here nor there. The third kick is late, the snare is not like the staggered clap/snare flam combo in the original.

[Bad Lieutenant]

your version is way too reverby, the reverb is both too large and too high in the mix. The reason is you aren't listening objectively - you have focused on what you think is the key facet of that sound and tried to bring it to the fore.

Obviously the original beat used a more boxy kick than the pokey number you are using so you wont get that 'breaks' sound with a 'drum machine' style kick.
The timing of your break is a little off, but if you are after sound advice that's neither here nor there. The third kick is late, the snare is not like the staggered clap/snare flam combo in the original.

Right! That's me told innit the thing is I agree with *everything* you say! Full disclosure: I have been producing (Londona) acid techno for the past 13 yrs! And so I need help to get away from this.

What'd be useful for me (Angstrom) is to hear *how* to recreate the sound in the break. So, I'd be grateful if you could articulate your advice in a practical example.

Many thanks!

[oddstep]

dial back dry/wet on reverb. if the reverb has a filter on it, filter out some of the frequencies above 800 hz (guesses). the original kick doesn't have as much hi frequency and the pitch envelope isnt as defined as it is in the 'my version kick'... it sounds lower in the mix - but that might the reduction in the high frequencies. the original kick sounds like it occupies less space in the mix. .. lower frequency range?
the original kick is playing at least a 2 note bass line - I am rubbish at picking up musical details quickly and my head is tired... but your kick is a one note thudder.
the original break isn't as bright sounding in general and doesn't have the same intensity of compression applied to it.

[oddstep]

Angstrom is right tho', your kick is pokey. I dunno if he thinks that's good, but I do.

[siliconarc]

many of those 'airy' beats from the early 90s rave were just sped up hip-hop samples. the beat you're trying to recreate is actually a 909 beat with reverb, sped up. can't remember the orig artist that did that break (mantronix, schoolly d, mc shan... someone like that) but just try recreating the pattern with 909 samples, add reverb, flatten the loop, and speed it up (with repitch mode). should get you fairly close.

saying all that, i like your beat as is.

[dylandigits]

The original beat is Schoolly D, "PSK What does it mean?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Qc4A-XBzBY (the break is around 5:40).

And as others said, it's a TR-909. I'd grab a 909 sample pack, slow down the original sample you're working with, and try to get the beat as similar as you'd like. garyboozy described the method I'd use were I in your shoes.

[Bad Lieutenant]

So, firstly, I just wanted to say many thanks for all of the helpful responses - for me, this break and its variants (even Krome & TIme's Virtual Reality on Subplates...for those who care to remember) just make my face tingle - maybe because I was buzzing at the time on all sorts of serotonin overload.

I even heard a variant of this break on Leftfields' Storm 3000 (although they only used it for a 4 bar loop and flanged it I think)

So, I am going to do the following: Get a 909 sample rack, lay the breaks as I see them, and then speed it up afterwards. There does seem to be a lower sub that comes off the kick which might just be filtered reverb.

I'll post the next effort here - but in the meantime, if any of you feel charitable, please do share.

Thanks again!

[amigo]

Check out the Breakbeat Forum which has production tips from established breakbeat artists as well as other good info.

[Bad Lieutenant]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say a big thanks to the very helpful people here...(special thanks to Dylandigits, Garboozy, Oddstep et al)

My new efforts using your helpful feedback and guidance is attached here: https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dm ... VlZqQTlVag

Grateful for your thoughts...and perhaps even some more helpful pointers.

I just can't seem to get that "hollow" airy reverb setting!!! I am sure it's to do with the kick I am using but not sure.

Thanks

The original beat is Schoolly D, "PSK What does it mean?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Qc4A-XBzBY (the break is around 5:40).

And as others said, it's a TR-909. I'd grab a 909 sample pack, slow down the original sample you're working with, and try to get the beat as similar as you'd like. garyboozy described the method I'd use were I in your shoes.

[Bad Lieutenant]

***BUMP***

So no takers on helping me recreate Schoolly D's break on Ableton then

[oddstep]

I think this is a road you'll have to travel alone, unless you find a breakbeat recreation obsessive with time on their hands. why don't you want to use the original loop and add eq/compression to taste, maybe chop it into edits if you want to add some diversity. i thought your break was alright.

[siliconarc]

***BUMP***

So no takers on helping me recreate Schoolly D's break on Ableton then

lunchbreak break recreation!
not too far off i think...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78200/schoolyD%20Project.zip

[Forge.]

the link is expired so I can't listen to the actual sample - but someone mentioning too much reverb made me think - what you might think is reverb might actually just be the room sound brought forward with compression

- drums are brief percussive sounds where most of the energy is in a very short attack at the start
-so when you compress with fast attack and release times you are just catching that start, squashing it, then you can bring the overall level up, which has the effect of bringing up the level of the later part of the sample, which is the room reverb etc that is normally quiet compared to the drum hit.
- a lot of drum recordings use compression like this. Led Zeppelin had a huge drum sound from this, and drums like that have been sampled forever

chances are you are trying to recreate a drum loop from a record where the original sample had all the character in it, and compression just brought out certain characteristics that might normally be buried.

why can't you just sample the loop you want?

[oddstep]

i stand corrected