Zero 8 swaps the channels in Live

[ra78]

Hello, everybody!

I would be VERY thankful for advice:
for quite a while I'm fighting with my Zero8 swapping the channels in Ableton
according to is own will OR hidden rule that I can not reveal.

Ableton sees Zero8 as 18 input / 16 output interface,
BUT 2 of the inputs are invalid by Korg's construction mistake,
so its 16/16 interface. So that's one thing.

PLUS as every channel has selector switch, changing the channel
operation from audio source inputs to firewire OUTPUTS,
and this is another thing, as the channel configuration may be changed even
within 2 hour working session.

PLUS I'm trying to understand the input/output channels config that
I need to set inside the Ableton on the startup of the program, as it seems it has some influence as well.

So I'm trying to solve the problem for two months time,
using my old EDIROL stereo USB interface instead, but as I got more external
gear than EDIROL may host, I'm really stuck.

So would be just great if somebody may go deeper
in my setup to give me some suggestions how to find the way out.

Thanks a lot in advance.

ra

[3dot...]

inputs switching with outputs ???!!! that's very weird indeed..
I've never had any similar problem with any interface..

4 things :
1. does this happen ONLY in live ? if not ..it can't be an issue with live.
2. why not just patch the zero8 audio through the edirol? (if all else fails...)
3. firewire (on pc) is known to be problematic.. check which fw chipset is best suited.. (usually 'texas instruments' is the standard)
4. I too fancied the zero8 ..it looked very promising...was discontinued very (very) fast ! just sayin'..

tbh ...to me it sounds like a hardware/driver problem..

about the channel config...
just enable whichever inputs/outputs you want to use...so they show up in the i/o choosers (remember more i/o = more cpu)
set the buffer-size to an acceptable size (lowest you can depending on cpu load )..
that should be it!

[3dot...]

http://youtu.be/vafE4RrDei8

[ra78]

hi, 3dot,
thanks for answering.

probably I was unclear,
the problem is not swapping in/out channels,
the problem is swapping output channels.

E.g. output stereo channels 7-8 are active in Ableton when I close it,
channels 7 - 8 on mixer are set in Firewire mode, cue and master correspondingly,
everything is working.

When I re-open Ableton in an hour,
without touching the mixer,
the output channel configuration doesnt change, the channels remain the same, BUT
I can hear nothing, only see the signal indications,
and when I start to find for my audio stream,
it turns out that Ableton sends it to channels 3-4 or another pair, for some reasons.

I'm running Mac with TI chip, and consequently there is no driver (as I understand,
I switched from PC half a year ago, may be I miss something here).
During trials on PC+Cubase everything is running fine,
so the reason is somewhere between Zero and Ableton.

I do not want to send Zero via SPDIF to Edirol,
as I got at least three stereopairs coming from external harware.

[3dot...]

I see..
even if you save a set ?
or are you only talking about the default 'template set'
(that opens automatically when you load up live)
if that's the case...
set up the mixer the way you want it when you open up live...including i/o
then 'save current set as template' in the preferences (file/folder section)
cheers..

[ra78]

Huh. It may work, will try that asap!

Thanks once more, and I'll post the results!

[ra78]

it didnt help. damn.
will keep on experimenting, but the first logial combination 16 inputs/16 outputs active didnt work.

another question if you do not mind - may Audio Midi Setup or some other Utility in Mac OS be of use here?

[3dot...]

sorry ..I'm on PC..

[1nfinitezer0]

i have this mixer and have never encountered the problem you describe. or i am completely misunderstanding you.
the source selector knob does not refer to the outputs directly, but the input source. if you have it set to firewire, it will only do an output from your computer if you have previously routed something to that channel specifically (which I tend to avoid because of feedback, but it's good for resampling kaoss pad wankery).
in the setup menu of the mixer itself, you can choose what each channel is actually outputting. i use this menu to output the master out to channel 15/16.
don't forget to check your input/output configs in the ableton menu.

[ra78]

Thanks A LOT, guys!

Digging that,
and it seems that the channels setup on Zero is just thing that I miss,
as I've been doing several factory resets,
and it also erases the channel config setup by the user,
and I didnt setup it back.

Rrrrrrr seems to be my mistake.

Will post the result.

[3dot...]

[ra78]

Huh

To: 1nfinitezer0
It seems I'm moving into the right direction, using your advice.

But did not settle it completely:
two more questions:

1. How do you set up Cue channel within Zero setup?

We need two output stereopairs, so I've been using 13/14 for the Cue and 15/16 for the master (for a year mixer worked perfectly, but then I've fried FW chip, and got it replaced, and after that this shitty things have popped up.

2. Do you start Ableton with Firewire selected on corresponding channels or switch it on afterwards?

Now I got a complete mess. I'm experimenting for an hour, and after resetting Coreaudio in Pref,
it started to work (both Cue and Master) but then I re-opened Ableton and got this mess again.

If you have time, may be you could put a step-by-step algorithm, I would be really thankful.

PS. By the way, if both of you guys have any hardware questions on the agenda -
I got KORG EMX, KORG KP3, MICRON ALESIS, DSI TETRA, and some MIDI stuff,
just ask I would be glad to share my experience.

[ra78]

I've managed to load up the system in a proper way twice.

It's running ok so far!

[1nfinitezer0]

awesome, glad you've got it working. i was away from the internet for a few days (gasp) or I would've responded earlier.

although it sounds like you've got a system that works, here's how i do it (in case others search for this thread):
-plug the firewire and turn it on before starting ableton
-the master cue out in the ableton sets is set to out:15/16, so channel 8 selector on the zero 8 is set to firewire audio or fw audio-midi
-through the channel setup, i have 17/18 going to 15/16, so the master audio out is from in:15/16, which is usually set to a resampling style track

[ra78]

Hi, 1nfinitezer0!

Thanks for coming back.

It seems that I still miss something,
having 13/14 (cue) and 15/16 (master) set as outputs in ableton,
accompanied by 15/16 as master on Zero.

As sometimes the system loads ok,
sometimes not, like 50/50 (and I've experimented with plugging Mac first/Zero second and vice versa,
and I always launch Ableton after Zero switched ON).

I did not get your points 2 and 3 completely, esp where you mention "master cue out" and "17/18"? Could
you please explain it once more and with more details?

P.S. Just for your information, be careful with HOT plugging/unplugging the FW plug, as I fried my FW chip on Zero once in the past, and the service engineer told me that that's a common problem of FW, as people often hotplug the devices. The safest way to connect both FW unit and computer is to have both units switched OFF + wait 20-30 sec to let residual currents go, and only then connect the FW cable.