I may be using External Instrument wrongly - can anyone help

[damian1972]

This may be a very stupid question folks but wondering if someone could assist - am working with an Access Virus hardware synth and Ableton Suite 8 , routing in on each relevant track via the Ext Instrument utility. I think I have the setup configured correctly on MIDI and Audio preferences - I am getting MIDI in and out of the Virus with no problem and recording MIDI onto tracks..

However - my ability to control volume in MIDI tracks from the Virus is limited - the Gain control knob in Ext Instrument box doesnt do much - I suspect this is just normal and main way to control hardware volume is on the Virus itself...but I have tried to route Virus MIDI tracks to a Return track for effects processing with no audible effect - I should be able to apply any audio effects within Ableton to tracks from the hardware synth, right? Am I not getting the audio back in correctly so only getting the MIDI control data through or something? Getting stuck...

Also would be intersted in hearing how people are controlling filter sweeps etc on hardware synths - automating curves within the software or tweaking the knobs - not sure which is most reliable...

[Rabalder]

I have tried to route Virus MIDI tracks to a Return track for effects processing with no audible effect

You cant really use audio effects for midi signals. Midi is not audio!

Anyways.. Have you hooked up the audio outputs from the virus into your audio interface?
Not just the midi connections..?

[damian1972]

I have indeed - got the audio outs going to audio in on M-Audio Delta interface and seems to be working OK

I might have the wrong idea conceptually about this - should I be able to process the incoming audio from a hardware synth at clip level within Ableton using the Ableton effects such as compression, saturator, ping-pong etc? I tried last night to route an external hardware synth patch to a return channel A for delay effect processing but couldnt hear any difference. When I routed a softsynth pad to the same channel I got a result - so a bit confused as to why Ableton preset pads work but the external Virus pads wont

[Rabalder]

As long as you can hear and see(level meter) audio coming from your synth into a track in Live, then yes, you should be able to use the sends and returns for processing.

Shouldnt be to big of a deal really..
If audio is coming in, say on track 1, then just use the "sends" to send that audio to any of the return tracks. When you turn the send up, the return track's level meter should start to move. If it moves you can put effects on the return track for processing. Also make sure the "audio out" on the return track is routed to the desired destination. Usually the master track.

[ttilberg]

You should definitely be able to hear your FX on your hardware, if you have the external instrument rigged correct. Can you post a screenshot of your setup? (alt-print screen in Windows, and I think cmd-shift-4, followed by pressing the space bar in Mac) I would take a shot of your Live set in session view, and also a shot of your soundcard input and output settings.

It is odd that changing the external instrument gain doesn't adjust anything, because it definitely should.

I wonder if your soundcard is playing your input straight through... I don't know how best to describe this, but I feel like your soundcard is routing the input signal straight out, and perhaps also into Live. This would explain why changing the gain knob doesn't do much, because you would still hearing the dry signal. If this makes sense, try muting the output for your... input. lol

[damian1972]

I'll give it a go - I thought it might be something to do with soundcard as well - I currently have soundcard output set to its mixer setting I think - this was the only way I could hear Ableton sounds controlled by my USB Keystation as well as Virus inputs so maybe the Virus audio output is coming through too high due to the volume level settings on the Delta Audiophile.

Will be difficult to print screens etc as music computer at home is offline.

[ttilberg]

I could be wrong about this, as I don't have outboard gear (I use External Instrument with other software instruments) but I don't think you want any volume coming directly from your Virus on your soundcard. If you can hear it playing while Live is closed, than this is the problem.

Make sure you mute the output though (in the mixer settings of the soundcard), and not disable the input entirely.

Good luck man!

[Theo Void]

[damian1972]

OK - set this up again and played around with soundcard settings etc - now can achieve volume/mixer control via External Instrument from the Virus so thats progress. Also can attach Abletons effects to the clips as normal so even more progress.

So everything seems to be working fine other than I'm hearing a blended polyphonic audio output from the Virus if I use 2 x Ext Instrument in order to use multiple Virus patches. This makes soloing the Ext Instrument inputs impossible currently - at render/mixdown am concerned this will cause problems...I'll search the forum to see if anyone has any expertise on multiple hardware input processing - hopefully there's a solution beyond buying more audio inputs on a larger interface

[ttilberg]

I think at that point, you might have to bounce the audio to and audio channel for each patch.
Like I mentioned above, I don't have a cool setup like that, but can only assume that you are routing 2x external instrument plugins to the same midi route, and from the same audio source-- unless it is able to parse different channels differently... If so, that's awesome.

I would love to know if this is not the case, I think that sounds really cool.

[damian1972]

I'll come back to you when I get to the relevant step

at the moment Ive got an Access Virus bass patch on one Ext Instrument - routed to Audio interface MIDI output and going to MIdi channel one which is the hardware synth Part 1

External Instrument two is routed to MIDI channel two via the same interfact clearly and is playing a lead sound.

Audio routed to come back in via Aduio interface.

Currently I cant solo the channels which I think is due to the fact Ive got the Virus stereo outputs coming in via the Audio interface standard 1/2 IN - I cant separate the audio signal into components track by track once its coming back into External instrument.

So I suppose the workaround when using the hardware multitimbrally is to not use External Instrument at all, to use hardware onboard effects and effect the hardware synth sounds/volumes at source - then leave as MIDI in the Live set and render to audio in that way - I need to spend more time looking at recording MIDI into Ableton projects from hardware...

what are your thoughts? Without being able to separate the audio parts the only solution I can see is to record as separate parts

[ttilberg]

Wow, the routing possibilities seem very cool with that. Makes me want to consider getting some outboard at some point

Anyway, check this dude's thread: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=154543
He seems to be going through the same problem you are experiencing.

I'm not familiar with your sound card, but he mentions something about using USB as additional audio out signals from the Virus??? Nutso.

[snakedogman]

I'll come back to you when I get to the relevant step

at the moment Ive got an Access Virus bass patch on one Ext Instrument - routed to Audio interface MIDI output and going to MIdi channel one which is the hardware synth Part 1

External Instrument two is routed to MIDI channel two via the same interfact clearly and is playing a lead sound.

Audio routed to come back in via Aduio interface.

Currently I cant solo the channels which I think is due to the fact Ive got the Virus stereo outputs coming in via the Audio interface standard 1/2 IN - I cant separate the audio signal into components track by track once its coming back into External instrument.

So I suppose the workaround when using the hardware multitimbrally is to not use External Instrument at all, to use hardware onboard effects and effect the hardware synth sounds/volumes at source - then leave as MIDI in the Live set and render to audio in that way - I need to spend more time looking at recording MIDI into Ableton projects from hardware...

what are your thoughts? Without being able to separate the audio parts the only solution I can see is to record as separate parts

Does the Virus have more than one stereo output? Does your interface have more than one stereo input? You will need seperate in- and outputs in order to be able to have seperate patches from your Virus on seperate channels in Ableton.

[damian1972]

Wow, the routing possibilities seem very cool with that. Makes me want to consider getting some outboard at some point

Anyway, check this dude's thread: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=154543
He seems to be going through the same problem you are experiencing.

I'm not familiar with your sound card, but he mentions something about using USB as additional audio out signals from the Virus??? Nutso.

Virus KC (2002) is pre USB Im afraid - its traditional stereo out only

[damian1972]

I'll come back to you when I get to the relevant step

at the moment Ive got an Access Virus bass patch on one Ext Instrument - routed to Audio interface MIDI output and going to MIdi channel one which is the hardware synth Part 1

External Instrument two is routed to MIDI channel two via the same interfact clearly and is playing a lead sound.

Audio routed to come back in via Aduio interface.

Currently I cant solo the channels which I think is due to the fact Ive got the Virus stereo outputs coming in via the Audio interface standard 1/2 IN - I cant separate the audio signal into components track by track once its coming back into External instrument.

So I suppose the workaround when using the hardware multitimbrally is to not use External Instrument at all, to use hardware onboard effects and effect the hardware synth sounds/volumes at source - then leave as MIDI in the Live set and render to audio in that way - I need to spend more time looking at recording MIDI into Ableton projects from hardware...

what are your thoughts? Without being able to separate the audio parts the only solution I can see is to record as separate parts

Does the Virus have more than one stereo output? Does your interface have more than one stereo input? You will need seperate in- and outputs in order to be able to have seperate patches from your Virus on seperate channels in Ableton.

Im on one pair of stereo inputs - Delta M Audio Audiophile - and the Virus has two sets of stereo outs i think...