a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Discuss anything related to audio or music production.
dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:48 am

Machinesworking wrote:
dhilsabeck wrote: That's the point of the whole hip hop analogy. Out of necessity a subculture with no bands with expensive gear, expensive recording studios, and so on became resourceful enough that they could use technology to create entirely new songs with recycled materials (much like those genres that were sampled borrowed from other genres and created their own new genres...). They took something that already existed and gave it a new life, a very natural progression in music. Of course, hip hop became enormous and completely redefined popular music, yet to the day and of course so much money gets involved the people who own the original material have a legitimate claim to a piece of the pie.

Now clearing samples is such a huge fucking deal (and costly) to the point that many people don't even bother anymore. Which is kind of a shame because it's a very legitimate art form and has led to some of the most influential music of our time. But I guess it forces musicians to do something else but it really sucks for the artist that specialize in crate digging and breathing new air into old existing material. Take all instinctive motivation to create art and put it to a screeching halt because of the threat of litigation, which can really put a damper on creativity.

It just seems like a stupid waste of potential to me. The whole world of money and art clashing can be a real bitch.
I agree pretty much with what you're saying, but realistically Hip Hop and Rap didn't use samples and drum machines because it was cheaper to. Everything flies in the face of that. A regular band is financed individually, the bass player buys his bass and amp etc. In the same way an MC buys his Mic and the DJ buys nice decks etc. Plus, studio time for some group like Public Enemy involved samplers and drum machines that far out cost a basic rock band.
Well, yeah, it's certainly not free but a producer plus a sampler, decks, microphones and way less studio time is substantially more affordable than a full on band trying to accomplish the same end result. It's not even close. Plus there was no chance whatsoever that they could accomplish something sounding anywhere similar, unless they had the absolutely best horns, strings, synths, James Brown's rhythm section, engineers, mixers, rooms and an enormous amount of resources and creative control to pull it off.

And furthermore they didn't have to re-hire everyone and all that shit for their next projects. They only had to buy or borrow new records and maybe an upgrade here or there but still a fraction of the cost of doing things in a traditional studio.

The most important aspect is that they could do it on their own. That was the beauty of the sampler, they could use bits of what they felt was the best for their songs picking from a history of really well recorded material. Waaaaay less restrictions than a traditional studio situation. A lot of people couldn't even get their foot in the door of a proper studio so they were essentially brought the studio to them. As a result a whole new population gets their hands on the tools, a creative explosion ensues, music and the way it is made changes forever.

dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:06 am

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dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:13 am

friend_kami wrote: not condoning, nor condemning piracy here, that is each to his own imo, but the point is that there is a reason that we have piracy and it's not that pirates wants stuff for free. in fact, i've yet to see someone pro filesharing who wouldn't consider a monthly payment plan to be able to download and/or stream whatever he wants.
Yup.


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beatmunga
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by beatmunga » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:34 pm

Perhaps the Oatmeal guy should just wait until it's legally available. What is he, 8 years old?

I really really really want to watch Prometheus but it 'aint out yet. I just have to deal with it.

Wanting something that you can't legally have is the motivation behind most theft, believe it or not...

Whether the restriction is cost, licensing or release dates isn't really the issue.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:54 pm

I think the real issue is human nature and unrealistic expectations of other people's behavior.

dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:03 pm

And being stubborn and expecting people to adhere to your way of looking at shit because you feel like you've got the moral high ground.

That's why we will always be fighting in wars and killing each other, literally and metaphporically.

beatmunga
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by beatmunga » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:19 pm

dhilsabeck wrote:And being stubborn and expecting people to adhere to your way of looking at shit because you feel like you've got the moral high ground.
Or perhaps because morals exist that most healthy humans agree on but certain unlucky individuals don't seem to be able to grasp.

There is a clinical description for such unfortunate individuals and it ain't purdy. Clinical psychologists reckon that about 1% of all humans have this abnormality. Our prisons are inordinately full of 'em.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

Bagatell
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by Bagatell » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:23 pm

beatmunga wrote:
dhilsabeck wrote:Our prisons are inordinately full of 'em.
To say nothing of our governments.

cmcpress
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by cmcpress » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:24 pm

friend_kami wrote:
aizo wrote:I dislike his metaphor / analogy.

If you go into a store and steal something, said thing is gone.

If you pirate software, you've just made / downloaded a copy. Nothing is gone but "potential" money.
this. i've yet to understand antipiracy people and their "you wouldn't steal a car" analogy; stealing a car gets rids of the car from the owner, whereas a copied car is just a copy and the only happened is that the manufacturer lost a bunch of potential money; not even customers. potential customers. big difference.
Except that makes almost everyone a "potential customer". Why be a customer when you can get the exact same service for free?

There are a number of arguments in favour of the service model - such as with steam - and these applications are great - BUT it's only really large companies with lots of money that can afford to run this kind of service. This means that indie's are priced out of the market.

Why you say? Cashflow. Starting a company and bringing a product to market - the research, the development and testing takes a lot of financial resources before you've even started to make back that money. It's no good having a user base of 10,000 using a cracked copy of your software if you can't pay the bills to implement support and development. So you either need to be rich, have large investors or you sell it at a premium.

There's a nagging worry about file sharing that gets me. For all the stated opportunities - the removal of gatekeepers and so on - it seems that the people most affected aren't nesc. the big bastards of the music industry - it's the smaller indie's first. There was a period when everything flourished for a while - blogs and so on - but now all the blogs are bought by money from the PR people. And the "charts" are full of the blandest shit imagineable.

Time was that music (like sport) was an avenue for some of the poorest in society could earn a living and break away from their beginnings - become socially mobile - through their talent. Now we've got an oligarchy at the top - and the only people who can make a living making music are the posh bastards who's daddy can fund their career - cf florence and the machine et al.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by LoopStationZebra » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:41 pm

Don't hate me, but I just grabbed an episode of House via a torrent.

:x
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:43 pm

Bagatell wrote:
beatmunga wrote:Our prisons are inordinately full of 'em.
To say nothing of our governments.

dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:55 pm

beatmunga wrote:
dhilsabeck wrote:And being stubborn and expecting people to adhere to your way of looking at shit because you feel like you've got the moral high ground.
Or perhaps because morals exist that most healthy humans agree on but certain unlucky individuals don't seem to be able to grasp.

There is a clinical description for such unfortunate individuals and it ain't purdy. Clinical psychologists reckon that about 1% of all humans have this abnormality. Our prisons are inordinately full of 'em.
You can tell those clinical psychologists to lick my balls. I'm of the opinion that morality is relative.

dhilsabeck
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by dhilsabeck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:58 pm

But I do wholeheartedly agree that there are some really bad seeds out there. But I don't think they're defined by whether they pirate material or not.

friend_kami
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by friend_kami » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:11 pm

beatmunga wrote:Perhaps the Oatmeal guy should just wait until it's legally available. What is he, 8 years old?

I really really really want to watch Prometheus but it 'aint out yet. I just have to deal with it.

Wanting something that you can't legally have is the motivation behind most theft, believe it or not...

Whether the restriction is cost, licensing or release dates isn't really the issue.
depends on where you're from. we have tons of shit here that's just not available, and nobody is importing them either.
i would happily spend 300 swedish or so every month on top of my internet bill to be able to watch and listen to what the fuck i want, when i want. look at spotify; there's a reason they're making money, and my guess it that it's not because they have nice users.
perhaps, and i'm just winging it here.. perhaps they found a better business model.

beatmunga
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Re: a letter from some guys at audio damage pissed about piracy

Post by beatmunga » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:17 pm

dhilsabeck wrote:
beatmunga wrote:
dhilsabeck wrote:And being stubborn and expecting people to adhere to your way of looking at shit because you feel like you've got the moral high ground.
Or perhaps because morals exist that most healthy humans agree on but certain unlucky individuals don't seem to be able to grasp.

There is a clinical description for such unfortunate individuals and it ain't purdy. Clinical psychologists reckon that about 1% of all humans have this abnormality. Our prisons are inordinately full of 'em.
You can tell those clinical psychologists to lick my balls. I'm of the opinion that morality is relative.
The child killers on death row have a relative morality too. In their moral universe, they don't need to say sorry for anything. If others don't share their morals, that's their tough call.

At the other end of the extreme, the guy claiming questionable receipts on his tax return has his own moral compass too. As does the torrenting teenager.

You're right. Humans stink. We are all wretched in our morals in a completely subjective, usually self serving way. But in facing our own personal wretchedness there are two types of people : those that are not particularly proud of their questionable morals, and those that wear them as a badge of honour.

The guy who boasted about his piracy is obviously the latter. Which one are you?
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

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