Help please - Exporting audio is changing my mix!!!?

[NickChurch]

Hi,

I know this has been asked before, but there has never been a fix for it as far as I know.

Here is the problem: I have a great sounding mix, and have some mastering plugs. All sounds lovely in arrangement view, but when I export the master channel, it is not the same. The bottom end is lost completely and some of the changes to individual samples in Battery are not there!!!

I know this sounds crazy, and I am not an experienced user, but I know my way around Ableton and I cannot get to the bottom of it. The Battery problem can be fixed by Freezing Track, but I am now unable to export weeks of work. My only options are to export all the seperate tracks and go back to Cubase - but I don't want to do this.

Any suggestions that help me understand what is going on?

thanks

Nick

[Tarekith]

You could just resample the main out then.

[NickChurch]

Thank you for replying - how would I resample the main out? You mean with my soundcard?

If that is a stupid question, please forgive me

thanks in advance

[Stace30]

Load up the project and insert an audio track, set this track to 'Resample' from the top box from the i/o section of the track, then arm the track ready for it to recieve the audio. Live will then record everything from the Master output into the track that you just added.

[simpli.cissimus]

Export at 32bit and tell us if it's still sound different.

I had this issue always till I finally started to work at 32bit.
Now I work only at 32bit and export for mastering at 32bit without dither.
I only export the final mastered track to 16 bit and then dithered.
Lot's of headroom during production and mastering and less computing for the software.

Also take care that any player you use on your PC has all enhancements turned off.
Some by default enhance sounds with EQ and so..., for different styles.

I suggest Windows Media Player, as I found it the most transparent off all.
Look if EQ is off, and if you like you can test some recommended EQ settings
in Media Player for the music style you produce.
This way you might find out if some sounds jump out or get down, before mastering.

Best you listen to Wavelab or Soundforge, if you use any of these two.

[michaellpenman]

i would check your export settings
what do you normal you?

resampling is a good option to like stated above

[NickChurch]

Export at 32bit and tell us if it's still sound different.

I had this issue always till I finally started to work at 32bit.
Now I work only at 32bit and export for mastering at 32bit without dither.
I only export the final mastered track to 16 bit and then dithered.
Lot's of headroom during production and mastering and less computing for the software.

Also take care that any player you use on your PC has all enhancements turned off.
Some by default enhance sounds with EQ and so..., for different styles.

I suggest Windows Media Player, as I found it the most transparent off all.
Look if EQ is off, and if you like you can test some recommended EQ settings
in Media Player for the music style you produce.
This way you might find out if some sounds jump out or get down, before mastering.

Best you listen to Wavelab or Soundforge, if you use any of these two.

Hi, I have tried, and 32-bit does make it better, not perfect, but better. the mix is sounding more 'true', but the mixdown (even at 32-bit) still contains instrumentation (not changes to the mix, but actual differnt reverbs etc).

At 32-bit, I can probably move forward so thanks for your help

[NickChurch]

Load up the project and insert an audio track, set this track to 'Resample' from the top box from the i/o section of the track, then arm the track ready for it to recieve the audio. Live will then record everything from the Master output into the track that you just added.

I have never noticed this functionality! Thanks

nick

[Stace30]

No problem Nick

[wasoota]

I have had the same problem. Something about the render function is broken if you ask me. It didn't just sound 'different', it was completely different, as in completely different effects settings were applied with my VST effects. I had a light hall on a track and ended up with a whooshing ambient-style modulated reverb - another preset. Id didn't realize what happened until I had gone through the whole export/convert, upload etc. thing. I went back to the project and it sounded fine listening back normally, correct settings and all.

Resampling the main out works of course, but it's ridiculous that you can't use the export function reliably.

[NickChurch]

I have had the same problem. Something about the render function is broken if you ask me. It didn't just sound 'different', it was completely different, as in completely different effects settings were applied with my VST effects. I had a light hall on a track and ended up with a whooshing ambient-style modulated reverb - another preset. Id didn't realize what happened until I had gone through the whole export/convert, upload etc. thing. I went back to the project and it sounded fine listening back normally, correct settings and all.

Resampling the main out works of course, but it's ridiculous that you can't use the export function reliably.

Totally agree - export is broken it seems. I have managed to use it by freezing all tracks. This means (to my logic) that is is the off-line processing engine that is faulty when applying effects etc in non-real time.

[simpli.cissimus]

I recommend you to use any other good reverb, but not the one in Ableton...!
Overlouds Breverb2 is a fine reverb...


In your case, I would suggest you also a more radical way too.

Use Ableton clean and pure as inspiration and start for your tracks.
ReWire it to StudioOne and use S1 as main DAW and use it's sound engine.
Move your audio tracks into S1 and process there with reverb and everything else.

You'll be amazed how nice EQ S1 has and how powerful all effects are.
One of the best and most complete Native Effects-Pack I know.
(I don't use Logic/ProTools and don't know...more...)
You'll have also more CPU power when all audio is only on S1, as it use just half...

Try this and see if it helps you.
It helped me !
On some point you have to do what helps you and when something keeps you unsatisfied,
move on and change it if you have to.
It hurts at the beginning and leaves a disappointing feeling, but in the end you'll be happy.

I bet you'll like this..., so let me know how it worked.
But stay at 32bit, even in S1.

cheers

[wasoota]

Thanks, but as we both mentioned, the problem is not the mix or effects per se, it's that the render function apparently applies different settings than are actually set. I wasn't using any of Live's effects and the song was barely recognizable afterwards.

I don't know what the issue is and I don't have the time or inclination to go bug hunting. These are the kind of basic functions I expect to either work or be disabled. To render the set on a separate track I have to fiddle with the buffer size again so Live won't choke on my very limited set, a set both Reaper and Renoise can handle with one hand tied behind their back (and even if you did adjust the buffers size on the fly there, it doesn't mean a hard reset every other time).

[NickChurch]

Thanks, but as we both mentioned, the problem is not the mix or effects per se, it's that the render function apparently applies different settings than are actually set. I wasn't using any of Live's effects and the song was barely recognizable afterwards.

I don't know what the issue is and I don't have the time or inclination to go bug hunting. These are the kind of basic functions I expect to either work or be disabled. To render the set on a separate track I have to fiddle with the buffer size again so Live won't choke on my very limited set, a set both Reaper and Renoise can handle with one hand tied behind their back (and even if you did adjust the buffers size on the fly there, it doesn't mean a hard reset every other time).

yep - what he said.

[simpli.cissimus]

I know that...

But I still recommend you to stop using Live as main DAW.

Go and use StudioOne as main host and rewire Live into it.
This way you will have S1's audio engine
and when you export have the same sound
as you listen when you produce.

Export from S1 while Live is rewired and then reimport all audio
to S1 and finish the track mix with S1 before finally export ready mix from S1.
You can also use S1's separate mastering section, which is amazing
and support all formats for final media.

You use Live as production source and S1 as main DAW.

I guarantee you now flaws with exported audio when you use exporting from S1.

You can use any other DAW too.
Cubase, Logic, ProTools...blaah, blahh...

Many Pro's and others work this way too !