Question - warping without warping?

[vincentlepes]

I just recorded a bunch of tracks from a live jazz group and they were recorded without a metronome and with many tempo changes. What I would like to do is align all of the warp markers without actually warping the track, so that Ableton knows where the sections and measures and such are (making editing easier) but without time-stretching any of the recorded audio. I have read a lot of frustrations with the warping process and thought I'd ask before I dive in on this. I basically want to end up with the track unaffected and the metronome following the track instead of the other way around.

Once the transients are marked, I would like to do some kind of partial quantization to keep things steady without effecting the natural groove of the song too much. Is there an easy way to do this as well without scrapping the tempo changes and applying a single BPM/time signature? I don't want to make it mechanical but maybe get the downbeats in line while allowing subtle drifts within the measures. My worry is that I don't want to ruin the accelerandos and ritardandos by warping to a strict beat per minute, nor do I want to attempt to recreate them with automation.

These tracks are scratch/guide tracks and I want to get everything in a nice tight format so we can use them instead of click tracks for recording the final parts. The group really wants to keep the ebb and flow of their tempo and not have a perfect dance beat tempo.

Thanks for any tips

[simmerdown]

warp is in relation to the grid, not the tempo, so that, imo, is not really an issue

if you want subtle warping , you can select the % of quantisation in the quant settings window (option when you rt click the clip), and if you want current visible grid, or whatever part of beat...

as far as leaving downbeats alone, you may need to do this by hand, actually, from your description, i think there is going to be a good amount of deep listening, and by-hand tweaking....

also, the warp mode, will depend on the instrument, but for full length part you will probably want complex pro, or complex

more stuff too, but its hard to tell what you know or dont about warp and quantisation i dont want to type a bunch or obvious...

but, i do not envy you this task

[vincentlepes]

Thanks,

I have experience adjusting warp markers and snapping a song into a predefined tempo. What I'm not sure of is going the other direction, getting Live's metronome and grid to be just as off-rhythm as the recording, and then at that point introducing a subtle quantize to clean things up within each measure without losing gradual speed changes in the recording. I get how to do some of this, but I don't want to get too far down the wrong road as I expect it to be a lengthy process.

I read a comment on another post that you could set up markers in a clip and then set that clip as master and the master timing and metronome will follow. Could it really be that easy? I'm not at my studio at the moment but it's something I am going to try.

When I do set warp markers, and then don't stretch the audio to the grid, is it possible to stretch the grid to the audio? After doing that, and hearing no change in the recording so far, is it then possible to even the tempo out at a certain percentage? My thinking is if I align the grid to the audio I'd be quantizing to the uneven grid at that point, which, if I did my transients right, wouldn't do anything. Or, maybe I'm totally looking at this the wrong way...

Maybe that makes more sense, I hope. It's hard to explain because I'm not quite sure how to achieve what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks again for your suggestions .

[yur2die4]

Messy reply:

First align the starts of all the tracks in session view unwarped. Fully dragged out (check clip properties on each).
I usually start 4 or 8 bars in. Leaves some room. This will be extra challenging btw. I'm more giving you hints to deciding how to solve your puzzle.

Making sure warp is off on all, turn warp on for a track that seems to have clear transients etc tat you think you can handle warping. If necessary, drag the start of all the clips in a ways until you are at a clearly legible start point (can always being it back later. Do this part before turning on that warp button).

With that warped clip, there is a Slave button. Hit it, it should become Master. Actually, you can probably duplicate that track so there are two. Turn warp and Master off on that duplicate.

You should have your tracks all lined up, unwarped. And one track with warp On. Set it to Beats warp mode. Whenever you play any point of the session, they should all be aligned no matter what.
If not, try starting over until you've got this down.

Now, warp that reference clip to taste. You may or may not new to solo it. Everything should stay along with it.

Once it is warped (put extra markers in the messy spots, make sure you know what is happening and where), select all the clips and turn Warp on. For now select the exact same warp mode (Beats, try to avoid Transient mode for now since each clip would have inconsistencies).

Mute the track that says "Master". It is there to keep time, not to listen to it.

With the warp markers surrounding the messier spots, you should be able to nitpick various spots on tracks and clean up. You should also be able to change warp modes without very much artifact since the Master warped clip designates a relatively natural tempo.

Actually I'm not sure where to go from there :/. I hope you sort something out

[vincentlepes]

That sounds like a great start, I'll give it a go, thanks