finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[crawling wind]

my favorite quote so far!

poor bigwig

[Machinesworking]

I'm more of a Live9 person than a bitwig person...

I don't know why? but I can't stop laughing at this!

maybe because you have exquisite taste... in softwares..

Exquisite taste in vaporware that is!

[3dot...]

Yes, but as a matter of fact I don't care about Live 9 at all, but I'm a bit eager to try out Bitwhig.

you're definitely a bitwig then..

[3dot...]

I think Ableton pretty much shot themselves in the balls..
creating this much anticipation is bound to create that much disappointment..
Live 9 will be disappointing.. I'm telling you now so you know..

bitwig.. have created a bad name for themselves BEFORE the software was even released..
they can do that.. provided that the actual software will be mother of kickass upon released..
I don't see that happening..

in short.. we live in disappointing times..

[wehkah]

I like to try out the Bitwig tool but i mostly like Live at this time and dont like to switch my DAW. The things which annoying me at Live especially on the newest beta is that not implemented 32bit vst host bridge (at this time) and that the devs seems not willing to implement some little workflow features during Live8 updates like Reaper does. Why i talking about Reaper, its a great calassic and big, i say huge programm with soo much features which makes the all day use easier than any other DAW at the market, i dont will talk about the price. Awesome! BUT... its not what Live is.

Live is my fav DAW since Logic is gone on PC, so please come on Abes and shine a light on yourself and for the customers! Follow the Reaper dev crew example. Dont care about the Bitwig bubble.

peace&sun
T

[Machinesworking]

I think Ableton pretty much shot themselves in the balls..
creating this much anticipation is bound to create that much disappointment..
Live 9 will be disappointing.. I'm telling you now so you know..

bitwig.. have created a bad name for themselves BEFORE the software was even released..
they can do that.. provided that the actual software will be mother of kickass upon released..
I don't see that happening..

in short.. we live in disappointing times..

We live in times when people have an overt sense of privilege. From what I can tell hardly ever does software development go smoothly, especially on complex expensive software with mass dependancies like DAWs. With that in mind people get a teaser and then expect things to move quickly, when they don't they get pissed. When software is rushed out the door to meet expectations and has the subsequent bugs that is likely to produce, they get pissed.

There is no way for the developer to win this, the customer will always be pissed:
Don't announce software that's close to beta ready. = pissed customers.
Announce software that's still Alpha. = pissed off customers when estimate of beta is wrong.
Don't announce software until it's a stable beta. = customers pissed, and moved to new software.
Release beta too soon to please customers, then spend years fixing odd bugs and trying to repair your reputation as a stable software developer. = pissed, outraged! customers!

It seems to me that there is no way to win with some people, that's the fax.

[3dot...]

so we all expect too much ?!
interesting theory..

[simmerdown]

was it the abes that created all the anticipation?

or

what anticipation?

[Machinesworking]

so we all expect too much ?!
interesting theory..

We just all expect it yesterday that's all.

This applies as usual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

[Forge.]

so we all expect too much ?!
:

yes we do.
quote the Louis CK rant on being bored... strangely absent from youtube...

was it the abes that created all the anticipation?

or

what anticipation?

Well yeah, I guess they did by being so fast with updates in the past people started to expect it, but it's easy to forget they had a LOT of catching up to do to the other DAWs.

But with Live 8 + Max for Live I think they got to a place where they could finally take a deep breath and ease off

[3dot...]

well.. that's a funny bit but.. and it's true one should know to appreciate..
but that's pretty cheap stab at regular human behavior ..and I think irrelevant..
imo you should take the bad with the good...
unless there's too much bad ...is where you say f!@ck it..
so you should look back for perspective..
look around to know where you stand..
and then try and see what can be improved for the future..
meaning more good less bad..
in any case the brain/psyche... has it's own laws of relativity
true you can never please everybody....

is (expecting a company to stand behind their words and advertising directed at you.. the customer..) a bad habit ?
I wouldn't say so..
is ranting out of frustration about problems/bugs that exist in a product ... bad ?
no again imho.. at the least criticism (if constructively put) might help improve the future product if not the current one..
ranting about stuff you want improved gets a +1 from me (if it's intentions are originally positive)
critique is very important imo...
if there's a lot of it (relatively).. means there's probably a lot to fix

[simmerdown]

i think this forum is at 100% feedback, an echo chamber...besides the 50 people up here, is there any public anticipation for 9?

...im asking

[Machinesworking]

well.. that's a funny bit but.. and it's true one should know to appreciate..
but that's pretty cheap stab at regular human behavior ..and I think irrelevant..
imo you should take the bad with the good...
unless there's too much bad ...is where you say f!@ck it..
so you should look back for perspective..
look around to know where you stand..
and then try and see what can be improved for the future..
meaning more good less bad..
in any case the brain/psyche... has it's own laws of relativity
true you can never please everybody....

Well all that eastern yin/yang type philosophy and introspection is great and all, but it makes for bad comedy.

is (expecting a company to stand behind their words and advertising directed at you.. the customer..) a bad habit ?
I wouldn't say so..
is ranting out of frustration about problems/bugs that exist in a product ... bad ?
no again imho.. at the least criticism (if constructively put) might help improve the future product if not the current one..
ranting about stuff you want improved gets a +1 from me (if it's intentions are originally positive)
critique is very important imo...
if there's a lot of it (relatively).. means there's probably a lot to fix

All that makes it's own internal sense for sure, but apply it to the situation.
Ableton know that people now want a fresh new version, they're mostly happy with the stability of 8 and are ready for new features. I don't think it's possible for them to no know that at this point getting a beta out is #1 priority.

Bitwig know that the longer people wait for the beta the less they can capitalize on the "new" factor, but also that they have to be as bug free as possible in a 1.0 release to make any sort of impression.

I think to a degree the constant complaining about 64 bit support was helpful to getting Ableton to make a decision about adding it to 8 instead of waiting for 9. I think it makes more sense for them to have waited until 9, so I do think the complaining in that case helped to push their hand. I don't think complaining about 9 or the release of the beta for Bitwig helps anything though, as a lot of people experienced buggy Live 8 releases that really should have been beta release issues.

[K1D1M35N]

There is no way for the developer to win this, the customer will always be pissed:
Don't announce software that's close to beta ready. = pissed customers.
Announce software that's still Alpha. = pissed off customers when estimate of beta is wrong.
Don't announce software until it's a stable beta. = customers pissed, and moved to new software.
Release beta too soon to please customers, then spend years fixing odd bugs and trying to repair your reputation as a stable software developer. = pissed, outraged! customers!

It seems to me that there is no way to win with some people, that's the fax.

Concerning Bitwig, you are wrong. The only mistake they did was anouncing the start of the beta and then delaying it without any further comment. And people who are complaining about bugs in a beta seem to have no clue at all. You know what a beta is right?

Concerning Live 9, well I'm quite happy with 8 though I'd like to have some more features. But I'm not going to complain day after day about it.

[regretfullySaid]

Just considered a thought on the possibility that Bitwig may not be putting too much importance on Ableton competition, or at least that being part of their main drive. They may have taken a lot of Live aspects so it seems obvious, but that doesn't mean every thought and step they make has to be reactive to Ableton. Perhaps they're just doing what they're going to do without a central strategy involving Ableton. Crazy, but who knows. Like maybe Toyota wanted to make a better car but not solely because they could beat Ford. And I wouldn't be panicking saying "they just released the 64-bit beta guys, we gotta get our beta out now", especially since BW is already 64 bit.