Please Bring Back playback head scrubbing!

[jrathkopf]

na someone please forward this link to the general forum.. i think if we can get enough people aware of this now missing feature, perhaps we could convince ableton to at least respond to the issue

[DJSK]

I started using live in May so my first version was 4.1 and I never owned or used a copy of live 3. I love the way the nudging features allow you more creativity when remixing on the fly and I also like that the loops are independent of the start and end markers and that you can make them on the fly as well. I am trying to understand what the scrub feature everyone describes did. From what I can gather it gave you kind of a 'scratch effect ' on the clips. If that is the case then I am all about that kind of a feature! If they were to incorporate some kind of scratch type control or a way to manipulate the sound much the way you do with a jog wheel like the Pioneer CDJ-1000 that would be insane. Please bring that feature back!

[Machinate]

The difference is you cant constantly rotate the knobs backards and forwards, you have to do this: <adjust><pause><adjust><pause>

ah yeah, now I get it! Of course! A selector in the prefs to switch between either of these modes would be cool.

[quandry]

The difference is you cant constantly rotate the knobs backards and forwards, you have to do this: <adjust><pause><adjust><pause>

ah yeah, now I get it! Of course! A selector in the prefs to switch between either of these modes would be cool.

That's what I've been saying too--keep the new nudge feature, as it can be useful to some, but make it optional on a per clip basis: leaving it on gives you 5 behaviour when you hold the mouse in place over the clip (the incessantly repeated notes at the global quantize value), turning it off goes back to 3 style behaviour (NO repeating notes when mouse button held down and/or in place). Best of both worlds, everyone wins... Both usages obviously have their fans from different camps, but to remove a key feature many of us rely on makes uprgrading pointless.

Ryan

[Angstrom]

I still dont understand why it should be connected to global ... set it initially to the default clip quantize value, sure. But locked to global?

seems weird.

[astar]

agreed, I don't understand why it is linked to global quantize (and it wasn't until L5b2!)

As far as playback scrubbing though, I can so some serious mangling in LIVE 5 by mapping clip play position, Rvrt, loop start/end/length and global quantize to a midi control . It gives way more control, IMHO, than the seemingly random scrubbing of the play header in live 4. Maybe it's just me but I never really used play head scrubbing before, it was always too random... I prefer relying on my own control instead of some accidentally cool variation of a loop I created by moving a mouse around.

In LIVE 5, being able to move the playpos to anywhere in the clip then set a loop there and then move that loop around all in real-time via MIDI is very sweet!

[supster]

4. Maybe it's just me but I never really used play head scrubbing before, it was always too random...

some of us use the playhead (start marker, playpos flag.. whatever we're calling it) to write rhytmic variations on loops. actually its one of my main writing techiques:

ex: play a 4 bar shaker loop in a scene with your BD, HH, COnga etc.

Hold CTRL key, snap the playhead down on different areas of the loop with your mouse, or simply drag it allong the loop to the beat.

do this just before the turnaround and generate variations. when you find a pattern you like, record it to the arrange view and consolidate. its not random at all. its very precise.

it doesnt just work for drum elements: alll kinds of audio and tonal elements also respond to this. again ... it might seem like a small thing but its not. its a primary writing technique for me, and others as well

i dont see any way of doing this easily in Live 5. do i have to pull up my loops in vs 4 or version 3 to do this? Why?

when a simple hotkey or option could easily leave us with the same funtionality thats so important

EDIT: If someone has figured out how to do easily this in vs 5, please post it ..
.

[Tuur]

I still dont understand why it should be connected to global ... set it initially to the default clip quantize value, sure. But locked to global?

I'm not on the Beta, but it seems to me that this would mess the re-triggering of clips and follow actions and stuff.

Right?

[quandry]

[quote="astar"]It gives way more control, IMHO, than the seemingly random scrubbing of the play header in live 4. Maybe it's just me but I never really used play head scrubbing before, it was always too random... I prefer relying on my own control instead of some accidentally cool variation of a loop I created by moving a mouse around.quote]

to each his own, ymmv, etc. I've been scrubbing since version 2, and to me it's no longer random, I can take a monophonic melodic clip playing and scrub it and know roughly what it will sound like if I click here or there, or scrub left or right--its a matter or hours and hours or scrubbing over a few years--in my book Live 3 style scrubbing is like another instrument. For me it is actually a lot more musical than 5, and when you get down to it, its not random at all--you are looking at the waveform (in the case of a monophonic melodic clip, it is obvious how the sounds correspond to the waveform). The playpos steadily moves forward like a tape deck or turntable, and with the mouse you jump around relative to this steadily moving playpos, with enough practice you can get to a point where you can almost sing along george benson style to your scrubbing. Sure, you can get all random with it, but with enough practice and the right clips, it can be extremely musical and fairly controlled, and a great way to variate an otherwise repeating loop.

Ryan

[astar]

quandry, I see what you mean...

I just loaded up live 5 again and after playing with the scrubbing again I realized there is one GLARING thing missing. It is VERY cool that we can now control the clip play position by MIDI but it should be possible to have the playpos update instantly instead of waiting for the quantization period to end before it moves.

For LIVE 5 scrubbing we NEED two quantize values: one for the distance that the play header will be moved when we rotate our rotary encoder and one for how quickly the playpos will update to the new position.

You could do a lot more if you could, for example, set the playpos to be moved around in 1/4 note steps but have the quantize set to 1/16 note or NONE with regards to when the playpos actually moves there.

anyway, I take back what I said, there is definitely something missing.
We need to have LEGATO style scrubbing!

cheers

[hoffman2k]

For the audible effect you guys are after.... Doesn't the beat repeat do the job for you?
Once you know how to work the thing. You can get greater results imo.

[astar]

beat repeat doesn't cut it, it doesn't change the start marker... it only "repeats" sections of the loop

[hoffman2k]

beat repeat doesn't cut it, it doesn't change the start marker... it only "repeats" sections of the loop

When they add a higher offset, you should be able to jump around in loops though.

[Gerhard]

Hi folks,

we hear you! Please understand that we now have to focus on finding and fixing bugs, i.e. making sure the software works as specified. Changing the spec at this point would jeopardize the stability of the software that will ultimately be released. Improving the software by changing exisiting functionality is one of our most delicate tasks, as every change can break someone's working methods. The mistakes we make on the way hit our loyal users of all people. Thanks for bearing with us, we will try our best to accomodate your wishes with future releases.

Gerhard

[telekom]

ah bugger.