Conservative settings for Multiband Dynamics?

[rythmc]

Hey,

So I have been learning a lot about mastering lately and the one thing I am still the most confused about is abletons multiband dynamics. Once I have all my levels, panning, eq, etc done I bounce the track to a new set and then put eq, multiband, and a limiter on the master bus.

Does anyone have any conservative settings they like to use for this? I do dance music so I do a fair amount of compression and limiting but don't want to overdo it... I know it differs for every song but just looking for a little guidance. Below are the settings I use... taken from the present "standard multiband compression" and then scaled back quite a bit as that was somewhat harsh.

Thanks for the help!

[invol]

Personally, I recommend bouncing your tracks to 24 bit files with plenty of headroom, and them "mastering" them in a new project so you can try to approach them with a fresh perspective.

The main reason to use multi-band compression is so you can apply more compression overall without certain instruments (e.g., kick drum) triggering the compressor more than you want. A lot of good music is still processed with stereo compressors (often with low frequencies attenuated in the side-chain).

First of all decide if you want to enhance the track, or alter it. For simple enhancing use slower attack and releases and low ratios (even 2:1 or less). Look for 1 dB or so of reduction. For altering (modern EDM approach), do what sounds good to you without obvious pumping and breathing artifacting. If you can't yet hear (perceive) that kind of thing with a stereo compressor, then you shouldn't be using a MB comp : )

One thing I like to do is use just the low band on a MB Comp (I use Flux Alchemist) to help with the kick and bass, and then a good stereo compressor for the overall punch (e.g., Crane Song STC-8)

Have fun!

Cheers,
Brian

[andydes]

The most conservative setting of all - off.

Do you just want to use it because it's there?

[rythmc]

Thanks very much for the advice... I may try just the low band on the MB for the kick and then a stereo compressor. Stereo compressor after the MB?

I'm not just using it cuz its there, but because I want to use compression on the track without having the kick make the stereo compressor go mad like involv mentioned. I am still learning this type of thing though so pretty confusing to me and I don't want to overdo anything, yet still want to use the tools available.

I did bounce in 32 bit to a new track for mastering... After mastering, what bit depth should I export at? Ableton website says 16bit with dither but why would I want to do that and not export in 32?

Thanks a bunch for the help!

[invol]

Export at 24 or 32 bit with no Dither for mastering. When burning an Audio CD (Red Book CD-DA), you need 16 bit 44.1k, so you need to dither. But ONLY if making CDs. It should be the very last step.

[rythmc]

Cool, I'm not making CDs, just putting on soundcloud, so I guess I can export the final thing at 32 bit?

Thanks again for the help

[beatmunga]

Cool, I'm not making CDs, just putting on soundcloud, so I guess I can export the final thing at 32 bit?

Thanks again for the help

If it's going on Soundcloud then MP3 will be fine, let alone 32 bit...

What style of music are you doing rythmc? Unless it is classical with extreme dynamics, don't get too hung up on bit depth. 16 bits are more than enough for anyone's ears here on this forum.

[invol]

Cool, I'm not making CDs, just putting on soundcloud, so I guess I can export the final thing at 32 bit?

Thanks again for the help

24 bit is just fine. 32 bit (which is floating point) in really only when there is going to be additional processing, not as final output format. Make your MP3 / AAC files from your 24bit master. Leave 0.3 dB headroom to help avoid some of the artifacting from lossy compression.

[medwaystudios]

Like others have said don't use multi just because you think you need to. It will depend on the genre and how you mix but I usually like to only have a db or two going.

What you should try to do is fix anything you were doing in multiband earlier on in the mix. Do drum group, synth group processing etc...

A little on the low end to tighten the kick and drum groups can be nice. As Brian said a good hardware comp can work very well. I love the SSL for gluing and tighten up mixes over multiband, it just sounds more natural. Multiband can easily sound phasey if not done right.

The issue with multiband is most people use it a mixdown fix instead of something that just adds enhancement to the overall mix.

If you limit your self to just a few db GR on each channel then that will force you to make adjustments elsewhere.

And also agree that don;t worry too much about bits, your sounds and production will make far bigger difference in the sound. For mastering just export at 24bit as it gives you plenty of noise floor so that you can bounce with 6-10db headroom with no issues.

As far as exporting to a new project I'm more of a fan of keeping it all in one. That way I can make mix changes where needed instead of working on just a stereo file. Gives you more control and you don't end up trying to fix something with mastering that could be best done at the mix level.

To me the mix and master work together as almost one process (when doing my own productions).

[3dot...]

you can find "conservative" MB settings that will fit you material ..in the built-in presets..
simply adjust the 'threshold'(s)...
oh..an Lives' MB has a nifty 'time' knob and a global dry/wet...
so even with presets you can easily dial it in to work with your signal...

as for exporting..(before master)...
24 bit wav with (at least)6 dB of headroom...
and make it sound good without fx on the master track
(means no MB on the master until 'mastering'..unless essential)

save each mix you export with the corresponding Live-set in the same folder.. with similar naming..
this way it's easier to come back to an older mix you did..
which sounds good to you now.. and touch-up small stuff..
(can't tell you how many times I had the wav.. wanted to fix some stuff after a year.. and couldn't remember the exact set which I exported it from... it was lost in a sea of files)
all I'm saying is ..especially in the final stages...
try and be as well organized as you can..
it saves time and grief..

as for mastering..
the ideal thing is to give it to somebody who's ears and method you trust
(and be in the sessions with him)
especially if you're the one that mixed it.. (it's a psychological thing)
allow some time between the mixing and mastering process.. so your ears can "forget" the tracks..
also it's great to have the project tracks always available..
if something needs to be fixed on the fly during mastering...
(rarely happens because the mix process usually takes care of those..)

[massenmedium]

You probably weren't going to but I'd avoid sending mp3s to Soundcloud - the trans-coding or whatever they do can make a real dogs dinner of of it by the time it's decoded and re-encoded. FLAC is fine.

Also if it's a bit of 'glue' you're after for your master you might consider trying a simpler single band mastering compressor.

[rythmc]

Thanks everyone for the help. Its much appreciated as I'm new to the whole 'mastering' process and it can be very overwhelming .

3dot... great point about using the presets and adjusting the threshold to taste, I didn't think about that. Also, YES I have found it is very useful to save different versions of the mix. Its nice to go back and know you're actually making progress!

In the end I actually ended up NOT using the multi band. I had it set so it was really just barely affecting the mix, and it sounded better using other methods. Ended up using the analog warmth rack turned way down, a single band compressor and then a limiter on the master.

Many thanks for the help, and heres the track if you care to listen

http://snd.sc/PRQtmI

[Sage]

Thanks everyone for the help. Its much appreciated as I'm new to the whole 'mastering' process and it can be very overwhelming .

If your mixes are up to scratch, then thats pretty much all the work done.

[H20nly]

rythmc - check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=182692

it links to a pretty cool set of videos on lynda.com. it is time sensitive so you will need to grab them somehow or watch them in the next few days. you might find some interesting info there to either reinforce what you already know or even learn something from new eyes.

hth.

[Hermanus]

...I bounce the track to a new set and then put eq, multiband, and a limiter on the master bus.

Go in audio FX rack, choose mastering and put the vintage mastering 2 on your master track.

I only have to move Hi level to 1/1.5 [same for Lo]

Multiband dynamic is a great tool for upward compression, amazing result to unravel some background fantom textures.