Why Do We Newbies Suffer?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
telekom
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Post by telekom » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:40 pm

Martyn wrote:The trouble is, there are now lots of new users coming into the fray who think that using audio software is going to be as easy and immediate as dropping two bits of vinyl onto two turntables and pushing a fader up.
So what? If you can't be arsed answering their questions then they'll have to work it out themselves. The other new users, who don't expect everything to fall in their laps, have got real questions. And who better to ask than a forum full of nice people with a huge bank of knowledge (I'm talking about us) :):):)
This is not the case, if a newbie has no knowlege at all of midi and recording, then he or she has a lot of learning to do. Nobody on a forum like this is going to be able to help beyond pointing them in the direction of suitable literature, people write WHOLE BOOKS on the subject.
Mmmmm, and some people are kind enough to say "read this book" and that only takes half a second of anyone's time... :)
I think Ableton have gone to extremes in their brilliant tutorials, both included in Live and on the wesite, the manual is the clearest and best layed out I've ever seen with any app.
Absolutely true. But as DJRetard says, some of this stuff is utterly unfamiliar to your average newbie. Don't you remember the first time you used a computer mouse ? It felt like you would NEVER be able to control that thing. And look at you now. Remember what it felt like to know nothing. It will make you feel good about how far you have progressed and make it feel like a privilege to help someone who knows as little as you used to know... :)
You have to do some work yourself if you want to learn anything that's good. It took me years and years to learn to play guitar, years to learn the ins and outs (ooh a pun) of midi via Atari, then cubase vst then Logic (all without manuals) through Reason and onto Ableton live at version 2. All hard won knowlege acheived through research, trial an error and perseverance.
Yep. And once you've answered the utterly simple newbie question that newbie will carry right on learning all the other hard stuff they couldn't get to because no-one would answer their noob-query... :) I bet you'd have loved it if you dropped a message on a forum and cool people answered your question... :)
There are a LOT of VERY knowlegable artists that use this forum, they all answer questions from anybody and everybody all the time. That means that they freely give their hard won knowlege so that others can grow quicker than they themselves might have.
Ain't it great ? Makes this place what it is... :)
Why does everything have to be so damn instant for some people these days? Good things take time to learn but that makes it much, much, MUCH more rewarding when that difficult thing you are trying your hardest to figure out finally clicks.
Cos we live in an instantaneous society... Ableton Live offers you and everybody else a MUCH faster wasy of producing music than a 24 track studio with ten feet of mixer and a patchbay like a medusa's merkin... don't knock it! It's also rewarding when you learn something and a cool person has helped you along and just given you a wee nudge in the right direction.

I say... ENCOURAGE THE NEWBIES !!! NEWBIES ARE OUR FUTURE !!! FEED THE NEWBIES !!!

:)

PS I think AdamJay was just kidding with the rtfm comment... ;)[/quote]
MacBook Pro Retina, Live 9.5, Reason, UC33, KRK RP5s, Teenage Engineering OP1, Korg ESX2, Korg Prophecy, Clavia Nord Lead, Bass, Guitars.
http://soundcloud.com/motorradkinophone

Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:10 pm

telekom wrote: PS I think AdamJay was just kidding with the rtfm comment... ;)
And you don't think that my tongue wasn't ever so slightly in my cheek either? :roll:

telekom
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by telekom » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:49 pm

Hi Martyn,
And you don't think that my tongue wasn't ever so slightly in my cheek either?
I always find it very hard to tell on a forum! If so I hope you don't take badly my observations... Once in a while I think you should be able to have a little fun with a newbie anyway. Tell them to use the "Compose" button when they get stuck and Live will produce something for you, etc... or ... Before you use a delay you should always wait a little bit...

That way you can get some revenge... :)
MacBook Pro Retina, Live 9.5, Reason, UC33, KRK RP5s, Teenage Engineering OP1, Korg ESX2, Korg Prophecy, Clavia Nord Lead, Bass, Guitars.
http://soundcloud.com/motorradkinophone

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:01 pm

dannyk wrote:
hambone1 wrote:I have all the tolerance in the world for anyone who has searched the forum, read the manual, done the tutorials, bought and digested 'Ableton Live 4 Power!', and has a rudimentary grasp of English grammar and common human courtesy.

After that, there are no dumb questions...

agreed, but.... on an international forum based in germany i think this should be amended to 'has a rudimentary grasp of their own language'

Though i can't understand them all, im always happy to see posts in languages other than English. Huge amounts of culture exists in languages and im quite a big fan of culture, even if it is mostly low culture. 8)

Sorry for my humourless post (definitely not having a go at you, hambone1 - i realise your post was tongue in cheek!) but i really think the use of languages other than english is to be encouraged.
It wasn't tongue in cheek! I'm serious... people need to make an effort before wasting the time of others spoon-feeding them. Buy 'Ableton Live 4 Power!' It explains everything in terms my 11-year old can grasp.

Unfortunately, English has to be the common language on the forum. I, too, admire those here for whom English is their second language, and are far more fluent and articulate than many of those here from the UK and US.
Last edited by hambone1 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:01 pm

Telekom

You're probably right about most of what you said really, just as well I'll never be prime minister eh?

Had my 40th birthday just over a month ago, my skin is shedding and there's a real grumpy old shit trying to clamber out. I'll probably end up as one of those nasty old men hanging around on street corners pushing his walking stick through kids bike spokes.

:cry: :P :x

telekom
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Post by telekom » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:10 pm

Hey Martyn,
I'll vote for ya! But if you wanna be Prime Minister, you'll have to give up all that making electronic music malarkey and no mistake guvnor... no time for that carry on now you're running the show! Maybe you should be the Prime of miss jean brodie instead :)

I too feel a mid-life crisis impinging on my mind and body. My friend just bought a big motorbike, he claims that helped...

If you do poke your walking stick into some kid's bike spokes, will you video it? It could be just the thing to replace forge's penguins !

HEY NEWBIES ! ANY QUESTIONS, ASK MARTYN ! I JUST ELECTED HIM PRIME MINISTER OF ABLETONIA !

Arise Sir Martyn...
:)
MacBook Pro Retina, Live 9.5, Reason, UC33, KRK RP5s, Teenage Engineering OP1, Korg ESX2, Korg Prophecy, Clavia Nord Lead, Bass, Guitars.
http://soundcloud.com/motorradkinophone

Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:17 pm

telekom wrote:Hey Martyn,
I'll vote for ya! But if you wanna be Prime Minister, you'll have to give up all that making electronic music malarkey and no mistake guvnor... no time for that carry on now you're running the show! Maybe you should be the Prime of miss jean brodie instead :)

I too feel a mid-life crisis impinging on my mind and body. My friend just bought a big motorbike, he claims that helped...

If you do poke your walking stick into some kid's bike spokes, will you video it? It could be just the thing to replace forge's penguins !

HEY NEWBIES ! ANY QUESTIONS, ASK MARTYN ! I JUST ELECTED HIM PRIME MINISTER OF ABLETONIA !

Arise Sir Martyn...
:)
Here we go then, 2 Lessons for newbies according to me

First lesson: 17 other uses for a firewire plug!

Second lesson: getting the sweetcorn out of the end of it after lesson 1

Looking forward to my second childhood :D

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:23 pm

Only 1 lesson needed for any determined newbie to master Live.

Buy and read this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 59-1440643

telekom
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:22 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by telekom » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:06 pm

Hey Martyn,
We're all looking forward to your second childhood ;)

NEWBIES! READ THIS! Free manual to download!

http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=downloads

Once you've read it all Martyn will personally reward you with a sweetcorn removal procedure... Martyn does your firewire do carrots as well? :)

...and we'd like pics of this too Martyn... :)
MacBook Pro Retina, Live 9.5, Reason, UC33, KRK RP5s, Teenage Engineering OP1, Korg ESX2, Korg Prophecy, Clavia Nord Lead, Bass, Guitars.
http://soundcloud.com/motorradkinophone

slatepipe
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Post by slatepipe » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:27 pm

hi, this is doing my head in and im probably going to get slandered for this but what does "daw" stand for

serotoninsteve
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Post by serotoninsteve » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:39 pm

Digital
Audio
Workstation


Greetings
MBP 15,4" 2,53GHz C2D 4Gb late 2008 / Mac OS X.6.2 / Novation Remote 37SL Compact / TriggerFinger / FaderfoxDJ2 / Padkontrol / UC33 / SM Audio TB202 / Audiofire2 / Apogee Duet / Event OPAL's / HD25 /

telekom
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Post by telekom » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:41 pm

It stands for Don't Ask Why. ;)

Although others use it to stand for Digital Audio Workstation...
MacBook Pro Retina, Live 9.5, Reason, UC33, KRK RP5s, Teenage Engineering OP1, Korg ESX2, Korg Prophecy, Clavia Nord Lead, Bass, Guitars.
http://soundcloud.com/motorradkinophone

telekom
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:22 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by telekom » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:43 pm

Hey gunslinger steve, you drew before me!

:x
MacBook Pro Retina, Live 9.5, Reason, UC33, KRK RP5s, Teenage Engineering OP1, Korg ESX2, Korg Prophecy, Clavia Nord Lead, Bass, Guitars.
http://soundcloud.com/motorradkinophone

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:25 am

Doesn't Always Work...

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:53 am

DJRetard wrote: I think a lot of the responses on this thread are quite disgraceful. Adam jays response to a newbie is Read The Fucking Manual. Come on adam, what kind of response is that man.
did you not see the "j/k" in my post?
thats internet speak for just kidding. and i also used a :wink: . and when a :wink: is combined with a "j/k" that means i was using....

drum roll please....


* S A R C A S M *


but i guess they don't call you DJRetard for nothing do they?
:roll:

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