Cautionary Tale: Warped waveform doesn't match actual music

[Rxkimo]

For those that didn't know, the waveform displayed for a warped clip might not match the actual audio output. This seems kind of tricky since if you move warp markers, the waveform displayed in the arrangement view changes (to me this implies that the arrangement view displays the actual timing of audio output).

In the image, playing the orange track plays audio with different timing than actually heard. The highlighted area in the purple track shows the audio how it is heard:

1. Orange track "Not Consolidated" is a warped track, the timing of the audio played does not match the waveform displayed.
2. Purple "Consolidated" track, waveform displayed here matches the timing of the audio played.
3. "Recorded" track, the waveform here also matches the timing of the audio played.



I mention this as it could be confusing if you didn't know...you move a clip and expect it to play at a certain point, but it's actually playing at a different point. You could even have audio not visible in the arrangement view that ends up playing.

[yur2die4]

That is an interesting find. To be more detailed, could you please also share the type of warp used? Are any other warp types equally problematic?

[Tarekith]

Is the start marker in all of the clips in the same position? I've seen Live accidentally place that a bit late after certain actions.

[Rxkimo]

That is an interesting find. To be more detailed, could you please also share the type of warp used? Are any other warp types equally problematic?

Interesting question, originally I used warp type = beats. In the image below I consolidated the warped track (#1) using all of the warp methods and they all come out with a bit different timing (with warp type beats being the most different from what is displayed in the arrangement).

[Rxkimo]

Is the start marker in all of the clips in the same position? I've seen Live accidentally place that a bit late after certain actions.

Yeah, the start marker is at the same position. For example, to create the clip #2, all I did was highlight #1 and press Ctrl+J.

[Hermanus]

interesting.

That is reminding me why I choose once and for all to switch default mode to repitch.
At that time, I was suspecting some misbehavior while recording.

I switch to other modes for editing but it is repitch when I record.
You give me the will to try recording in different modes and see/hear what's happening.

By looking at your last screenshot, repitch seems to be a straight copy... well ok it is only a screen capture

my two tiny cents

[yur2die4]

Yeah. I was looking at the clips as if I were to choose which kind of warp best suits your material. But that is missing the point of your original post. The fact that you are hearing one thing due to application of warping, but the waveform is informing you of something altered from the actual sound.

Good to be aware of.

[yur2die4]

Hermanus. Repitch only works if you are not relying on maintaining the same pitch when warping. You move a single warp marker and things could get messy easily haha. It really depends on what you intend to do with samples. Changing tempo can mess with repitch warped material as well.

[Hermanus]

I'm aware of this, and use it right for this, it keeps the original pitch, when I rework old projects, it really helps me [unwarp>> original pitch spotted>> undo the unwarp then work with the audio clip]
I often use repitch and moving warp points cuz I love the results on some loops.
But I take whatever mode suits the needs, texture gives strange landscape when you slow down clips then play with grain and texture, complex pro for voice formant pitching is excellent.

Another annoying thing that happened to me yesterday, consolidating a clip then your can hear a pop at the beginning of the looped clip.
It is still here on the last version... that's one boring stuff to workaround with
bump and record the audio source to another track rather than consolidate could be a solution.

[Rxkimo]

The more I think about it the more it makes sense it works this way. Warping really is just an effect with the "luxury" that you can get an approximation of the timing in the arrangement view. To see the actual timing, it would require live to recalculate the waveform every time you switch project tempo, move a warp marker, change warp type, etc. Which is not practical.

So warping is kind of like, say reverb, in that you don't see the resulting waveform in the arrangement unless you render it.

So the main point is to realize warping is an "effect", and if you want to be 100% sure that what you see in the arrangement is what you get, you need to render.

[yur2die4]

Yeah. A thing I realized a while back is that most warp algorithms can be roughly emulated with Sampler. They used to have you add markers and move them along the waveform which would be unchanged. Pushing the waveform around started in version 8. I still do not know which I like better haha. I admit that it is fun and easy to grab and drag things to line up visually.