External Instrument vs regular input

[glenn303]

Can someone explain whats going on with my recording. When i have an audio track recording from the Minitaur track that is using External Instrument the timing is perfect, but when i record the minitaur directly from my soundcard (so i can have a mono wav) the audio is coming in before the midi note.
Quite sure i am doing something wrong and most likely is do to adjusting the latency.
But i am still curious as to why External Instrument syncs Midi and audio better.
Here is a screen shot....

[glenn303]

Bump.

[hoffman2k]

Probably worth out checking the built-in lesson about setting up latency compensation.
From the looks of it, you're overcompensating.

[Muzik 4 Machines]

but he is right external instruments and direct input have different latencies, real PITA in a live setup

[hoffman2k]

My bad, misread something there.
This might help:

well in my experience MIDI output devices vary in quality..
and have different latencies..
so it's important to adjust the midi latency in the output prefs. (for each port !)

the game is to have less stress both on cpu and on Midi output data/ports
and I think a difference in mentality.. and a lot of nerves/patince..

in the quest for good timing with computers..
you should have the following different mindsets imo :
jamming/sketch mode(loose timing mode)...
tracking mode(as tight timing as possible..record to audio)...
arrangement mode (correct timing problems visually).....
mixing mode(technically listening for and correct timing problems)

.. if you have other midi devices/controllers connected which are not necessary.. can be truned temporarily off maybe?..

generally try to use less midi output ports (chain outboard synths to each other and use midi channels)

...the outboard midi port should be separated/dedicated and not shared with 'control surfaces'

as far as audio plugin timing.. changing track delays is necessary..
if heavy processing is going on timing will start to suffer.. (and it's stressed more at low latencies..)
add to that lives plugin compensation (unfixed) problems.. and timing goes out the window easy...
so stay on your toes.. sometimes it's needed to manually compensate using lives'/plugin mistakes...
and generally try to use the minimum stuff when in "tracking mode"..

you can..freeze EVERYTHING BUT the hardware synths...
jam out on your outboards and record to audio asap..
then unfreeze.. (might not be ideal for heavily sidechained tracks)

as far as timing of the recording..
if you set monitoring to 'off' it's supposed to be spot on..
(provided that audio interface latency report errors have been manually corrected in the prefs)
in this mode you're supposed to monitor with "0 latency" ( directly from the soundcard/mixer)
and listen to the audio clip/add fx after it's already in there
this is the most straight forward approach imo
the downside is you're not gonna be using fx/vsts when recording

all the other monitoring modes TRY TO compensate so it's supposedly aligned the way it was played/heard..

I'm still confused by this as well..

oh ... and keep in mind it's never going to be perfect
but you can increase precision by easing the load
concentrating on this stuff makes you lose your inspiration..
manually adjusting timing of recordings is one of lives' strong point after all
sometimes it's the easiest route..

viewtopic.php?p=1404513#p1404513

[glenn303]

My bad, misread something there.
This might help:

well in my experience MIDI output devices vary in quality..
and have different latencies..
so it's important to adjust the midi latency in the output prefs. (for each port !)

the game is to have less stress both on cpu and on Midi output data/ports
and I think a difference in mentality.. and a lot of nerves/patince..

in the quest for good timing with computers..
you should have the following different mindsets imo :
jamming/sketch mode(loose timing mode)...
tracking mode(as tight timing as possible..record to audio)...
arrangement mode (correct timing problems visually).....
mixing mode(technically listening for and correct timing problems)

.. if you have other midi devices/controllers connected which are not necessary.. can be truned temporarily off maybe?..

generally try to use less midi output ports (chain outboard synths to each other and use midi channels)

...the outboard midi port should be separated/dedicated and not shared with 'control surfaces'

as far as audio plugin timing.. changing track delays is necessary..
if heavy processing is going on timing will start to suffer.. (and it's stressed more at low latencies..)
add to that lives plugin compensation (unfixed) problems.. and timing goes out the window easy...
so stay on your toes.. sometimes it's needed to manually compensate using lives'/plugin mistakes...
and generally try to use the minimum stuff when in "tracking mode"..

you can..freeze EVERYTHING BUT the hardware synths...
jam out on your outboards and record to audio asap..
then unfreeze.. (might not be ideal for heavily sidechained tracks)

as far as timing of the recording..
if you set monitoring to 'off' it's supposed to be spot on..
(provided that audio interface latency report errors have been manually corrected in the prefs)
in this mode you're supposed to monitor with "0 latency" ( directly from the soundcard/mixer)
and listen to the audio clip/add fx after it's already in there
this is the most straight forward approach imo
the downside is you're not gonna be using fx/vsts when recording

all the other monitoring modes TRY TO compensate so it's supposedly aligned the way it was played/heard..

I'm still confused by this as well..

oh ... and keep in mind it's never going to be perfect
but you can increase precision by easing the load
concentrating on this stuff makes you lose your inspiration..
manually adjusting timing of recordings is one of lives' strong point after all
sometimes it's the easiest route..

viewtopic.php?p=1404513#p1404513

Thanks for re-posting this.
I think for now i am just going to stick with using external instrument since it seems to work best for me. The workaround for mono wavs will just be exporting the track in mono then drag it back into my set.
Still wonder why or how external instrument is tighter than direct input, and i dont (so far) have to adjust the latency when using it.

[ynfynytyng]

My bad, misread something there.
This might help:

well in my experience MIDI output devices vary in quality..
and have different latencies..
so it's important to adjust the midi latency in the output prefs. (for each port !)

the game is to have less stress both on cpu and on Midi output data/ports
and I think a difference in mentality.. and a lot of nerves/patince..

in the quest for good timing with computers..
you should have the following different mindsets imo :
jamming/sketch mode(loose timing mode)...
tracking mode(as tight timing as possible..record to audio)...
arrangement mode (correct timing problems visually).....
mixing mode(technically listening for and correct timing problems)

.. if you have other midi devices/controllers connected which are not necessary.. can be truned temporarily off maybe?..

generally try to use less midi output ports (chain outboard synths to each other and use midi channels)

...the outboard midi port should be separated/dedicated and not shared with 'control surfaces'

as far as audio plugin timing.. changing track delays is necessary..
if heavy processing is going on timing will start to suffer.. (and it's stressed more at low latencies..)
add to that lives plugin compensation (unfixed) problems.. and timing goes out the window easy...
so stay on your toes.. sometimes it's needed to manually compensate using lives'/plugin mistakes...
and generally try to use the minimum stuff when in "tracking mode"..

you can..freeze EVERYTHING BUT the hardware synths...
jam out on your outboards and record to audio asap..
then unfreeze.. (might not be ideal for heavily sidechained tracks)

as far as timing of the recording..
if you set monitoring to 'off' it's supposed to be spot on..
(provided that audio interface latency report errors have been manually corrected in the prefs)
in this mode you're supposed to monitor with "0 latency" ( directly from the soundcard/mixer)
and listen to the audio clip/add fx after it's already in there
this is the most straight forward approach imo
the downside is you're not gonna be using fx/vsts when recording

all the other monitoring modes TRY TO compensate so it's supposedly aligned the way it was played/heard..

I'm still confused by this as well..

oh ... and keep in mind it's never going to be perfect
but you can increase precision by easing the load
concentrating on this stuff makes you lose your inspiration..
manually adjusting timing of recordings is one of lives' strong point after all
sometimes it's the easiest route..

viewtopic.php?p=1404513#p1404513

Thanks for re-posting this.
I think for now i am just going to stick with using external instrument since it seems to work best for me. The workaround for mono wavs will just be exporting the track in mono then drag it back into my set.
Still wonder why or how external instrument is tighter than direct input, and i dont (so far) have to adjust the latency when using it.

The external instrument automatically calculates the latency based off of the soundcard calculations (in the preferences). You can make the regular audio input match up perfectly, but would need to manually input the latency calculations yourself.