Ms Pinky & Live looping to spinning decks...looking for help

[JuanSOLO]

I've been trying to figure out how to get some Live looping to Ms Pinky working. I'm close, but I really want my patching to be better. I made this video to kind of show what I am doing in hopes of getting some help.

http://vimeo.com/35278018

For a while I was trying to get the pinky object to control ~groove and other objects with no luck. My workaround is using rbrt23's Superlooper and getting the auto export to send the file name to the Ms Pinky patch, a series of bangs and such the exported loop gets automatically loaded in the Ms Pinky, AFTER Superlooper plays it 1 time. If anyone would like to help with this that would be GREAT!

[kanystr]

Hi I am at same point of livelooping in Max. Getting clipnames in ableton works fo me now, but i have some stability issues when working with liveAPI and clip session view is problematic to manage via APC40. So i get full version of max and working on this from a "scratch"... Are you using superlooper also as "exporter" wav files and automaticaly loaded by mspinky? or you get something better? Just want to avoid dead ends. I want to get this thing work smoothly finally.

Many thanks

Kanystr

[JuanSOLO]

Are you using superlooper also as "exporter" wav files and automaticaly loaded by mspinky? or you get something better?\
Kanystr

I was, and NO.

I would love to find a smoother solution. I have not been messing with M4L since the 64bit beta, I may or may not dive back in.

[gavspav]

I might be able to help you to get the Pinky object to work with the groove~ object.

I just connected the velocity out (third output) from the Pinky object to the first input of the Groove object?

Or does the problem lie somewhere else?

[JuanSOLO]

I just connected the velocity out (third output) from the Pinky object to the first input of the Groove object?

It's been a while since I was working with M4L, so I am a little rusty.

So are you saying, to drive the groove~ object with MsPinky object, and have that groove~ object, sharing a buffer~ in a seperate device that captured the audio on its own track?

[gavspav]

Well I think you can share a named buffer across tracks yes.

So if you are recording your loop into a buffer on one track you should be able to control it via Pinky on another track.

Alternatively in the past I used live.remote to send the velocity values from one track to another but I think the previous method is probably better.

[JuanSOLO]

I'm gonna give it a try when I get home tonight.
Thanks!

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

[JuanSOLO]

SO here's my super simple 2part patch.
Put the "recording patch" on a Track and feed it live audio.
You can choose 1-8 bars, right now it is a quantized to Live, so pushing the record button will start recording on the downbeat, and stop at the specified bar length.

Put the "pinky patch" on another track and let it receive your pinky vinyl.

After testing it I realize the main problem is scrubbing the vinyl back and fourth sometimes changes the loop, for just 1 loop?

any help would be GREAT!

pinky patch

Code: Select all

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</code></pre>

recording patch

Code: Select all

<pre><code>
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

[gavspav]

Changes the loop? how?

I've experienced odd behaviour using multiple buffers where I felt occasionally m4l was recording into/playing the wrong one but I've never managed to isolate it and be certain. Could well have been patching error. Or perhaps there is some issue.

Does this behaviour happen all the time? Does it happen if you scrub when you are still recording? I'm wondering if you are scrubbing to a bit of the buffer that hasn't been recorded yet, or a bit which was left over from before?

Using the timer to set the out point for the loop may not be the best way as there is variable latency sending messages between devices on different tracks. You could use your bar no. chooser, live tempo and a bit of maths to set the out point. Or maybe even use it to set the buffer length. The buffer is cleared when you change the size though.

Other things you could try (just to try and isolate the problem) if that doesn't work would be - substituting grooveduck with groove, record~ with a system based on poke~. No logic here though - just random trial and error! Good Luck.

[broc]

I think the basic problem here is that M4L devices introduce latency (depending on Live's buffer size).
So the recorded audio will be delayed and thus not in sync with the transport.

[gavspav]

Can you not workaround this?

By offsetting playback or (record position if using index/poke).
Perhaps delaying the record off signal if necessary.

[broc]

In theory such delay compensation seems possible.
But it must be adjusted manually since there is no command to query the actual latency.
And if you have several M4L devices in a chain, latency depends also on the position.

[JuanSOLO]

I'm not sure how to describe the behavior, because it's not clear whats happening.
First of all, I am not very familiar with buffer~ and it's complementary objects. This part of M4L is learning territory for me, So some of these suggestions are currently over me head.

As far as latency goes, scrubbing the groove~ in one device, thats getting at a buffer in another, there's not enough latency to bother me. It's actually works really nice, exactly what I had originally hoped for.
HOWEVER, I am guessing there is some latency thing that happens to create some strange behavior in the loop playback.
For example, I can record the loop into the buffer, and I immediately get playback from the groove if the vinyl is spinning (THATS COOL!). Then once I start scratching the record, it sometimes cuts a piece off of the loop for one cycle or so. Like after mad scratching the loop out point seems shorter, then it resets itself? Perhaps the buffer or the groove is not getting all of the velocity values from the vinyl when it's moving too fast?

[gavspav]

And are you sure you are not trying to scratch part of the buffer that hasn't been recorded yet?

e.g if you start recording for 8 bars then start scratching after 1 bar, if you scratch towards the end of the buffer it won't have recorded yet.

In fact the way you have it set up, the loop point of the groove object isn't even set up until the recording finished. Thats why I thought it might be better to link the loop point to the bar length/tempo, that way groove knows the length of the buffer before it has all been recorded.

However it could be caused by something else. I haven't got any decks set up here, so I can't try it. Although I could maybe rig something up with the control signal mp3.

[JuanSOLO]

When I get a chance this evening I will crack it back open and see what I can do.
This is just a super fast simple attempt from last night.
Yet it gives me hope for making this solid and workable.

There are some suggestions over at the pinky thread about how to do this, but buffer stuff is new to me, AND I had quit using M4L since the 64bit beta, so I am a little rusty.