Romney Vs. Obama -----------the Debates

[andydes]

Nice to see loops isn't calling it communism by the back door. Well not today at least.

I can't say how it might work in the US, but here's out it worked out here in for rail and utility companies going the other way.

We start with crap, inefficiently run national services (can't argue with that point). The Tories (and a bit new labour) say they can make it more efficient by privatizing despite money going to shareholders. To start with it works, companies reduce costs, and they make profit.

But then you have the problem with growth. In the glorious corporate system, if you're not growing, you're failing. Infrastructure can't usually grow by expanding, it can only grow by making more and more profit. So when they've squeezed all the efficiency they can, they charge customers more and more to give more and more profit to shareholders. Every year, energy companies say they are forced to put up prices despite record profits. And it's actually true that they do.

Truth is both systems have failed the public. But when politicians say we're shit at running this, so we'll let someone else do it and make shed loads of cash out of you, the correct response is

FUCK YOU! RUN IT BETTER THEN, YOU USELESS PRICKS!

In the case of essential infrastructure and services, I at least prefer the ideology of them being state run. I'd rather just be fucked, than fucked and robbed.

[H20nly]

Loops, the reason it has taken 8 months for the straight strip of asphalt to get half done probably has more to do with unions than the local government. even if that isn't true, i'll tell you what is... only a handful of companies got to bid on that strip of road (if it was even more than one). of that handful the contract went to the lowest bidder, but who sets the standards? who is the owner of that construction company related to in government?

you cannot compare health "care" to construction. the health "care" infrastructure is already in place anyway. this isn't about building a bunch of government hospitals and turning existing hospitals into low income housing. think it through. it's about who PAYS the doctors/hospitals. our current system works like this:

oh you have an ailment.
we will treat that.
time to pay... if you pay with cash that will be $1000.00
oh you have insurance... okay well then you pay $20.00 today
meanwhile the insurance company pays a "pre-negotiated" amount for the service you received... $650.00 - they (the medical facility) write the rest off.
but if you walk in there after having lost your job and don't have insurance you get charged full price. WTF!? ->

the government won't be giving you health care... they will be writing the checks to the doctors who are giving you health care. there's a difference. instead of paying your insurance company "some" of your check each month (or a SHIT LOAD if you have a child) your taxes will cover it. even if they are raised a few dollars each paycheck the cost of insurance would evaporate and offset that. it's so simple... that it will never. work. and never. happen. because the profit margins are the only thing motherfuckers "care" about... not our health.

[LoopStationZebra]

H2, you're really romanticizing the shit out of your preferred option. Look at ANYTHING government touches and it's an utter train wreck. From the large to the small. It's never remotely been efficient on any level. This will be WAY more than just the government writing checks to Doctors. omfg. This will eventually be a beauracracy the likes of which we've never seen. There will be VAST groups of fucktards evaluating this process or that, this procedure or that, omfg. It's how it works in every single other branch of existing government and it will be no different with healthcare. How long will it be before the Department of National Healthcare is shooting videos on their Vegas vacation/conference talking about how awesome it is to spend the taxpayers money on cool things like strippers?



I don't care that it's unions working on that road. Their schedule is absolutely and completely set by the government. The contract is entirely vague as to a completion date, and THAT my friend is mismanagement. It takes so long because:

1. The government doesn't care nor demand a timely schedule.

2. There's endless ENDLESS fucking permits and review processes in place whereby work stops at periodic intervals so that the inspector can come around (on his schedule, of course) and do some chin stroking. This isn't a superfuckingbridge. This is a motherfucking simple road.

3. It's government.

[andydes]

The second I finished my little rant, I pick up the paper and see what I find all over front page.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/exclu ... 07084.html

Brilliant

[H20nly]

yeah Loops... cuz our current health care system is SO AWESOME, you're right. i just love it.

need i remind you that i am posting from a surgery center right now? the system is already fucked. i get to listen to doctors who have only been practicing for a few years and who own two sports cars and an SUV complain about how little money they make... i have one car (Nissan Altima) and can barely afford health care for my son and i. capitalism is what's wrong with health "care". you cannot call it "care" when the only motivator is $$$

my "preferred option" will never happen, not in our lifetime, or at least not with out a collapse of our current system first.

case and point: the man who invented the Polio vaccine... gave it away. he did that so that children would not have Polio. as if Roche, Bausch and Lomb or any of a dozen pharmaceutical companies would EVER do that.

call me a socialist in 3...2.. i don't give a fuck. call me that.

[LoopStationZebra]

You should have been a doctor. That's the moral of the story.





You'll get no argument from me that the insurance companies and pharmaceuticals only care about $$$. But, instead of passing the healthcare equivalent of Glass-Steagal, we're going to fuck around down some road that leads to more government management. It's retardation to the extreme, but it's the easy way out for people on the Left that hate rich people. I get that.

Again, and this is very very simple stuff: Look at how your precious current adminstration has done nothing but coddle the Bankers and Military Industrial Complex. Then come back and tell me that ANY government management of healthcare is a good thing.

The US ain't Sweden; no matter how much the Left holds them and other European nations as an example of how awesome healthcare could be.

[LoopStationZebra]

I don't want to spend twice as much.

But I sure as fuck don't want any more of my taxes going to the same government that thinks it's okay to talk about Universal Healthcare and weep openingly about THRONGS of people dying in the streets because they don't have healthcare, then turn around and kill thousands of civilians in Afghanistan/Iraq and talk about going to war with fucking Iran.

If that doesn't make sense to you, then I don't know what to say.

[starving student]

Loops your getting dangerously close to fox news territory, the difference is we know you have a brain so please remember that the next time you get the urge to say Obama doesn't want to bring down military cost, he's already doing it, it's Romney that wants to give the pentagon money they didn't ask for.

[LoopStationZebra]

I mean, we can't even fucking keep from killing innocent people abroad, yet somehow we're going to provide awesome healthcare for all.

omfg.

[starving student]

I don't want to spend twice as much.

But I sure as fuck don't want any more of my taxes going to the same government that thinks it's okay to talk about Universal Healthcare and weep openingly about THRONGS of people dying in the streets because they don't have healthcare, then turn around and kill thousands of civilians in Afghanistan/Iraq and talk about going to war with fucking Iran.

If that doesn't make sense to you, then I don't know what to say.

Finally.."......... I absolutely agree, that's why I'm voting for the guy who didn't start the wars, is trying to get out of them.."........ And not the guy who wants to start one with Iran

[LoopStationZebra]

Loops your getting dangerously close to fox news territory, the difference is we know you have a brain so please remember that the next time you get the urge to say Obama doesn't want to bring down military cost, he's already doing it, it's Romney that wants to give the pentagon money they didn't ask for.

starving. please. The amount Obama wants to reduce is paltry and doesn't coming anywhere close to what's necessary and what guys like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich have been calling for...

It's also nothing but lip service. By executive order, this VERY FUCKING MINUTE, he could reduce military spending my withdrawing all of our forces in Europe, Japan, etc etc - nevermind the Middle East. That would save vastly more amounts of money than his shitty reduction proposal.

The reduction will also never fucking pass, and he knows it. There's lots of constituents in military states that need those jobs! lol.

Next?

[LoopStationZebra]

I don't want to spend twice as much.

But I sure as fuck don't want any more of my taxes going to the same government that thinks it's okay to talk about Universal Healthcare and weep openingly about THRONGS of people dying in the streets because they don't have healthcare, then turn around and kill thousands of civilians in Afghanistan/Iraq and talk about going to war with fucking Iran.

If that doesn't make sense to you, then I don't know what to say.

Finally.."......... I absolutely agree, that's why I'm voting for the guy who didn't start the wars, is trying to get out of them.."........ And not the guy who wants to start one with Iran

Who's that then?

[simmerdown]

...netan-yahoo

and we do isreal's bidding, god knows why

[beats me]

What the US needs is a plot of land about half the size of Australia. Don’t want to contribute to the homeland? Here’s a ticket and a helmet. Go enjoy your unregulated and unprotected utopia. Living amongst people with your same value system will be unending bliss and absolutely nobody will take advantage of the situation. Human nature left unchecked brings nothing but equality and unity.

[starving student]

Loops your getting dangerously close to fox news territory, the difference is we know you have a brain so please remember that the next time you get the urge to say Obama doesn't want to bring down military cost, he's already doing it, it's Romney that wants to give the pentagon money they didn't ask for.

starving. please. The amount Obama wants to reduce is paltry and doesn't coming anywhere close to what's necessary and what guys like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich have been calling for...

It's also nothing but lip service. By executive order, this VERY FUCKING MINUTE, he could reduce military spending my withdrawing all of our forces in Europe, Japan, etc etc - nevermind the Middle East. That would save vastly more amounts of money than his shitty reduction proposal.

The reduction will also never fucking pass, and he knows it. There's lots of constituents in military states that need those jobs! lol.

Next?

But would he live to see the sun rise or would some right wing Christian put a hole in his head?
Seriously.........they'd have his ass up on a meat rack, look at what they're doing to him over the level of cost he's trying to bring down now.

You can't solve a problem if you're not willing to solve the problem and the first, rule of war is to know who the enemy really is.

Here's a question about gov since we both believe it should be limited, which year would you prefer to go back to in our history?