To Learn C++......................?

Semuta · Post by **Semuta** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:51 pm

I'm a long time Network Administrator and have never really had an interest in programming, but that being said, I've learned so much with immediate results by working with Arduinos!

It let's you see how the programming iteration works, with immediate visual and tactile interaction via the microprocessor.

I have found this to be far more interesting in the short term than learning to make a tic tac toe game...

You program essentially in C, and I'm sure his interest will soon move on to more exotic programming forms, but you might just get an awesome controller out of the process if you work with him!

S

gusc · Post by **gusc** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:08 pm

When I was a kid (around the age of

a learned BASIC (yep, the good 'ol dead language). After few years I forgot almost everything of it and by the age of 19 I thought that I need to learn something new. By that time it was web development hype going on so I went all PHP and a little bit later JavaScript ...

... then something happened, I started to learn one language after another. I went on to learn ActionScript (kind of similar to JavaScript, btw it's good for online game development), then I needed to do some proper server side module programming for Flash server side. So I learned Java and right around the same time C# (because Windows, and also good for game development, because ... XNA). C# is quite like copy paste of Java, just the Microsoft way. I didn't stop there, I thought: well, why the heck not, I should definitely get some raw power. And I learned C. And with the knowledge of Java/C# it was already quite easy to grasp C++ (except, maybe, for templates). Now I'm learning electronics and doing some micro-controller programming, and sooner or later I'm going to dive into Assembly (I have my reasons). But this one is hard, because, actually there are many different Assembly flavors for each type of CPU. Oh, and somewhere in the middle came Python, because ... Live API, Objective-C, because ... iOS, yada yada

Sorry for this off-topic bio, but ... yeah I think it's easier for the kid to start with something easier than C/C++. First choice should be something that has a garbage collector and wouldn't require an environment hustle (setting up virtual machines or interpreters), or at least required as less as possible prerequisites, so that he does not have to worry about memory management, dependencies, etc. Concentrate on the fun of "business logic".

I vote for C# with Visual Studio Express and if you're running Win7, then .NET is already there.

Ben_Binary · Post by **Ben_Binary** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:11 pm

Sounds like hes on the right path

My experience at EA, Sega and Rockstar is that its what you do with the code that is important.
So any advice I can offer would be to look at what experience he can get doing indie projects and build a resume.
Education is NOT a prerequisite to get in the industry - PAID experience is not required - eg. a well-executed mod of a game is legit and impressive to employers that are worth working for.

Look at what engines (or games) he would like to work with and learn to code for them as its his ability to use his art and code for it that is important.

Storyboarding is an important skill even using something as simple as xml is useful for integrating content into some engines.... maybe for starters ... java or action script for mobile games would be useful.

But the best advice I can offer is to learn a coding language (like C#) as far as it is good to know for working with any specific engine > to integrate content using the gaming engines code.

Good Luck to them all > that group of friends is a very valuable asset!!! (in many ways)

marcoskohler · Post by **marcoskohler** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:16 pm

Most undergraduate schools in the USA begin their programming introductions with java and that really is the perfect language to begin with. You are introduced to fundamental programming concepts as well as OOP.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:32 pm

ian_halsall wrote:Java sucks in comparison - the IDEs are grim.

I wouldn't go that far. I used eclipse for years and it was great, although these days I use IntelliJ Idea (although I hardly do any Java at all). On the rare occasions I do use VS it doesn't seem like i'm missing much.

My personal take on learning to program is to not worry too much about any particular language, it's probably more productive to find an environment which you can dive into and do stuff you find interesting, e.g. for games something like Unity, UDK, CryEngine, Source etc.

Remember lots of successful games were/are mods (Counter Strike, DOTA, DayZ, Team Fortress etc..) so its worth considering that as a starting point.

If you choose that route then the choice of language will probably be limited for that environment, so just dig in.

infernal.machine · Post by **infernal.machine** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:55 pm

Considering he is familiar with Blender and Ableton, I feel like a good starting point would be python, considering MIDI remote scripts are written in python, as well as scripts used for blender.

Python is not 'real' programming.. it's a scripting language. But I feel like it would be more immediately useful than learning C. Once he has some scripts built (in python it's fairly easy to get something up and running pretty quickly), he'll have a better sense for how things work, and if he wants to pursue programming seriously, he can then learn whatever language is necessary for what he wants to accomplish.

I'd say don't just learn a language to learn a language. Learn a language with a particular goal in mind.

Just my 2 cents! Good luck!

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:39 pm

That's a bit misleading, python is often used as a scripting language but that's not the be all and end all of python.

Not sure what you mean by 'real' programming, but I would definitely class Python as serious, its not a toy language.

ian_halsall · Post by **ian_halsall** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:16 pm

mdk wrote:
ian_halsall wrote:Java sucks in comparison - the IDEs are grim.
I wouldn't go that far. I used eclipse for years and it was great, although these days I use IntelliJ Idea (although I hardly do any Java at all). On the rare occasions I do use VS it doesn't seem like i'm missing much.

My personal take on learning to program is to not worry too much about any particular language, it's probably more productive to find an environment which you can dive into and do stuff you find interesting, e.g. for games something like Unity, UDK, CryEngine, Source etc.

Remember lots of successful games were/are mods (Counter Strike, DOTA, DayZ, Team Fortress etc..) so its worth considering that as a starting point.

If you choose that route then the choice of language will probably be limited for that environment, so just dig in.

Yeah but if you've used visual studio 2010 you will never want to use anything else - until somebody comes up with something better....

infernal.machine · Post by **infernal.machine** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:22 pm

mdk wrote:That's a bit misleading, python is often used as a scripting language but that's not the be all and end all of python.

Not sure what you mean by 'real' programming, but I would definitely class Python as serious, its not a toy language.

I only mean that it is a high level language. It can of course be used in many ways, but it is easy to approach due to the incorporation of a lot of natural language.

ian_halsall · Post by **ian_halsall** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:39 pm

I write winforms and console apps every day (almost) in c#.

Multi-threads, server stuff, events, database, screens.

Given the choice for business applications where performance isn't absolutely critical I would use c# and sql server every time - if performance is crucial then c or c++.

I currently use Oracle but that's not important for this discussion.

I've been programming since 1988 (seriously) and used c/c++/java/perl/c#/basic/cobol.

Unix, VMS, VME, Windows and a bit of Linux.

c#/dotnet/sql server/vs 2010 - is the best I ever used.

simmerdown · Post by **simmerdown** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:13 pm

wow! the parts that did not fly totally over my head are very helpful and informative

it def needs to be somewhat fun, and be able to see some results right off the bat. this will all be self-taught for right now, or group learned.

knowing Blender well, it seems that a natural progression would be to get into Unity and see where it goes from there...i am going to give him all this info though and let him sift through, see what the gut reaction is

really like your advice Ben-Binary, that its more about the result than the way you get there...hey, thats a lot like music innit?, if its a good tune no one is thinking about what Daw it was made with!

thanks all!! any further adds in here will certainly be appreciated and checked out

ian_halsall · Post by **ian_halsall** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:45 pm

I got a bit self indulgent and forgot the original question.

And that rarely happens here!!!

simmerdown · Post by **simmerdown** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:51 am

par for the course, no worries...all good info!

vader · Post by **vader** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:35 am

the choice of language to learn depends on what you want to do.

scientific and game programming occurs primarily in C/C++
business applications typically occur using java or some microsoft platform such as C# or vb.net
Apple iPhone apps are written in Objective-C, including their games
Android applications are written in Java, including their games
Machine hardware programming occurs using ASM/C/C++

Mudo · Post by **Mudo** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:06 pm

Start from Scratch http://scratch.mit.edu/
Then go Arduino/Processing
Finally try openframeworks

If you want an introduction check the CapsuLABs at this link. They are in spanish but I think they will affordable startpoint.

http://hangar.org/es/category/blocs/bloc-interactius/

Best wishes,
-m!

To Learn C++......................?

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