Live 9 Pricing

[fishmonkey]

One thing is for sure, they certainly make us long-term customers to suffer a lot with their pricing experiments that change day by day.

some people are clearly suffering a lot more than others. you're carrying on like Ableton held you up at gunpoint in the street.

[artpunk]

I would have thought it would be nice/reasonable for Ableton to honour the original posted upgrade price for those who placed the order in their cart when it was listed as such. Ableton is in no way obliged to do this however, but it would be good PR. For those who didn't take advantage of those prices at the time, I certainly wouldn't call them stupid, I mean how were they to know. It is frustrating for them certainly, but just one of those things. I was in a similar situation a while back when a similar glitch occurred for upgrades to Ableton. I meant to jump on board, but delayed as I needed to check my bank balance...when I came back the prices had changed, I think I had placed the upgrade in my cart, but honestly can't accurately recall that detail. I emailed support and they explained that it had been a mistake & apologised. I certainly didn't demand that I get my upgrade at the incorrect price, I just decided to wait for a future opportunity...I think I was one of the lucky ones here, because I purchased the upgrade offer to suite from standard as soon as I saw it the other day. I am not worried about Ableton honouring the offer of the free upgrade to 9 as I always assumed and am sure they will, as I bought the upgrade on that basis, as advertised. I did not even know there had been a mistake until I saw this thread. To be honest, I get a bit confused by Ableton's upgrade pricing schedules & I thought the price I got was based on the fact I had a M4L licence as well, as Ableton seem to factor previous license purchases into their upgrade pricing.

I know I am in a fortunate position & can understand the frustration factor if you are one of those who missed out, like I did on that previous occasion, but I cannot understand why anyone would expect Ableton to continue offer a product the wrong price, whether it was their fault or not, after they had realised and corrected their mistake. If they did that for everybody that said "Oh, I was going to get it when that (mistaken) price was on offer" - Well, everyone would email them saying that, wouldn't they? It was a mistake people, why should anyone expect them to follow the loss that they must have inevitably made from those who did get the wrong upgrade prices during the glitch period with even more loss? The company needs to stay viable and that involves making rational business and pricing decisions. Ableton 9 is such a brilliant upgrade I would have gladly paid what they are now asking for the upgrades or even a bit more to be honest.

[exper]

@fishmonkey:

No, because ultimately, we have the choice to say "Forget this, I'm getting off the yearly (well, previously before 8-9) sky high rental fee for Ableton. There's certainly plenty of other programs out there with reasonable update prices. Correct, we don't have to upgrade, and we can even sell this increasingly bloated software. I just want something that has rock solid timing. Ever try to use Ableton to clock a Machinedrum pattern with synced delays? Sloppy as heck. Other software isn't like that!

I like Ableton. A lot even. But this was bad PR, bad decisions, and bad outcomes. To prove it, Sweetwater still has the Live 8 to Suite 8 Boxed upgrade at $309. So with 25% off that should be about $231. Where did Ableton pull $469 as the regular upgrade price from then?

(Actually, I guess we can just buy this upgrade from Sweetwater and get the free 9 Suite upgrade, right?)

[freqn]

Let's see, the recap so far as well as info for those who join the thread now" Ableton posts reasonable pricing on Live 8 to Live 8 suite upgrades on Thursday. Some make efforts to order this when they come home from work or for the weekend. Meanwhile next day Ableton re-adjusts the price $100 based on a mistake they state they made. They tell those who were going to order the upgrade to contact support.

Support's response is that it was a mistake and no effort done to provide the original price. Others chime in and say those who didn't jump in the minutes the price was announced were 'stupid'.

Don't really know what the next response is. Replying to such emails will most likely be ignored by support (or [email protected]). Maybe sending an email to Gerhard Behles directly, that might get Ableton to provide a reasonable solution?

Excellent recap.

[artpunk]

Let's see, the recap so far as well as info for those who join the thread now" Ableton posts reasonable pricing on Live 8 to Live 8 suite upgrades on Thursday. Some make efforts to order this when they come home from work or for the weekend. Meanwhile next day Ableton re-adjusts the price $100 based on a mistake they state they made. They tell those who were going to order the upgrade to contact support.

Support's response is that it was a mistake and no effort done to provide the original price. Others chime in and say those who didn't jump in the minutes the price was announced were 'stupid'.

Don't really know what the next response is. Replying to such emails will most likely be ignored by support (or [email protected]). Maybe sending an email to Gerhard Behles directly, that might get Ableton to provide a reasonable solution?

Excellent recap.

Except that no rationale is given as to why Ableton should provide an original price that wasn't meant to be there in the first place?

[fishmonkey]

Let's see, the recap so far as well as info for those who join the thread now" Ableton posts reasonable pricing on Live 8 to Live 8 suite upgrades on Thursday. Some make efforts to order this when they come home from work or for the weekend. Meanwhile next day Ableton re-adjusts the price $100 based on a mistake they state they made. They tell those who were going to order the upgrade to contact support.

Support's response is that it was a mistake and no effort done to provide the original price. Others chime in and say those who didn't jump in the minutes the price was announced were 'stupid'.

Don't really know what the next response is. Replying to such emails will most likely be ignored by support (or [email protected]). Maybe sending an email to Gerhard Behles directly, that might get Ableton to provide a reasonable solution?

Excellent recap.

Except that no rationale is given as to why Ableton should provide an original price that wasn't meant to be there in the first place?

that's because the nasty side of this argument isn't about Ableton. it's about some people's inflated sense of entitlement, and outrage at not getting what they "deserve".

all this talk about Ableton's loyalty to it's "old timers". loyalty is a two way street you know, and in my mind a loyal customer would take on board a pricing mistake and let it go.

seriously, the arguments from Kent on why he deserves the $100 off are ridiculous. above he even argues that he shouldn't pay the full upgrade price because he doesn't even want all the features!

[kent_sandvik]

all this talk about Ableton's loyalty to it's "old timers". loyalty is a two way street you know, and in my mind a loyal customer would take on board a pricing mistake and let it go.

seriously, the arguments from Kent on why he deserves the $100 off are ridiculous. above he even argues that he shouldn't pay the full upgrade price because he doesn't even want all the features!

I could easily pay far more for an upgrade. I'm not a starving musician, exactly. However, it is the principle that annoys me. You just don't do these kinds of tricks to customers that are about to upgrade.

If you think loyalty has to do with getting used to a company constantly changing prices behind your back, I don't know what to say... Since 2.1 days this is the most ugly thing I've seen from Ableton. I even forgave them the catastrophic 8.0 release.

[Scaper7]

Despite the pricing mixup ...

The more I look at the package, the better it looks. Sure it's a bit pricey but what's more important to me is the vibe I'm getting with regards this release. While the pricing mistake is a minor annoyance I'm more interested in the fact this is looking like a major milestone for Live. Time to move on ... and lots to look forward to.

[fishmonkey]

@fishmonkey:

No, because ultimately, we have the choice to say "Forget this, I'm getting off the yearly (well, previously before 8-9) sky high rental fee for Ableton. There's certainly plenty of other programs out there with reasonable update prices. Correct, we don't have to upgrade, and we can even sell this increasingly bloated software. I just want something that has rock solid timing. Ever try to use Ableton to clock a Machinedrum pattern with synced delays? Sloppy as heck. Other software isn't like that!
)

either what Live 9 does is or isn't worth the financial investment to you, and as you say there is nothing new about Live's pricing structure.

i don't expect anybody to be happy with the fact that the price changed upwards, but some of the bitching about it is out of proportion with reality.

and on the subject of upgrade prices, how many of those other DAW makers have made the R&D investment required to have truly integrated controllers?

I could easily pay far more for an upgrade. I'm not a starving musician, exactly. However, it is the principle that annoys me. You just don't do these kinds of tricks to customers that are about to upgrade.

If you think loyalty has to do with getting used to a company constantly changing prices behind your back, I don't know what to say... Since 2.1 days this is the most ugly thing I've seen from Ableton. I even forgave them the catastrophic 8.0 release.

i just don't get why you are taking their pricing mistake so personally. it's not a "trick", it's a mistake. it's a $100 mistake. it's not about you.

[kent_sandvik]

It has indeed been an interesting day. I stopped by the Focusrite booth at AES complaining about noise levels with the FocusRite interface I had thinking that's it about getting future FocusRite products. And they provided me with such good support and ideas how to fix the issue that most likely I will get a FocusRite for the next audio interface. Meanwhile I'm fighting with Ableton tech support about upgrade price hikes behind my back.... Like two different worlds concerning customer service.

[artpunk]

If you think loyalty has to do with getting used to a company constantly changing prices behind your back, I don't know what to say... Since 2.1 days this is the most ugly thing I've seen from Ableton. I even forgave them the catastrophic 8.0 release.

The way you are wording your argument suggests you think Ableton made this particular pricing mistake deliberately. Why would they? I know from experience it has happened before, but a mistake is a mistake, surely? What others believe they are entitled to is a matter for any given individual, but the way I see it, you either like the product or you don't, you either buy it or you don't. We all get upset when we miss out on bargains, or buy something and then see it for less down the track... That's only human.

[kent_sandvik]

If you think loyalty has to do with getting used to a company constantly changing prices behind your back, I don't know what to say... Since 2.1 days this is the most ugly thing I've seen from Ableton. I even forgave them the catastrophic 8.0 release.

The way you are wording your argument suggests you think Ableton made this particular pricing mistake deliberately. Why would they? I know from experience it has happened before, but a mistake is a mistake, surely? What others believe they are entitled to is a matter for any given individual, but the way I see it, you either like the product or you don't, you either buy it or you don't. We all get upset when we miss out on bargains, or buy something and then see it for less down the track... That's only human.

I don't know if it was a mistake or not. Anyway, the key is how to handle and repair mistakes and that shakes out the good companies from the bad ones. The way I saw how Ableton handled this situation was terrible concerning customer service.

[kitekrazy]

i just don't get why you are taking their pricing mistake so personally. it's not a "trick", it's a mistake. it's a $100 mistake. it's not about you.

In the software industry it usually about the end user if you want to profit. There's no shortage of DAWs out there and the competition is getting tougher. MOTU and Sony are now moving to cross platforms. I have yet to see a software company make this kind of error other than Propellerhead and they made nice with some of their users.

[fishmonkey]

It has indeed been an interesting day. I stopped by the Focusrite booth at AES complaining about noise levels with the FocusRite interface I had thinking that's it about getting future FocusRite products. And they provided me with such good support and ideas how to fix the issue that most likely I will get a FocusRite for the next audio interface. Meanwhile I'm fighting with Ableton tech support about upgrade price hikes behind my back.... Like two different worlds concerning customer service.

wow, what a great story. how about you try asking them for a $100 discount voucher from your next interface then? please report back.

i just don't get why you are taking their pricing mistake so personally. it's not a "trick", it's a mistake. it's a $100 mistake. it's not about you.

In the software industry it usually about the end user if you want to profit.

the point is the mistake wasn't personally aimed at anybody, like Kent is making out. he won't even admit that it's a mistake, ffs. in his mind it's some kind of conspiracy.

[login]

The problem is that they advertise the price as an upgrade to suite 8 with 25% off, when in reality is the price to upgrade to live 9 suite, with 25% off.

The real price for the upgrade from live 8 o suite was 262 USD.

So in the end is not that bad, but the way they are advertising it is misleading, in reality there is no FREE update, since they increased the price from 262 to 399 USD.

They could come more transparent and honest with a more correct wording of their pricing and upgrading scheme.