LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

[H20nly]

Given how important this is, and how core to the software, it seems almost impossible that it would be added *after* a public beta.

This would be considered part of the bedrock of the software. Discovering substantial problems (new, a.k.a. not the already-known PDC issues) with timing and drift in a publicly released DAW that costs of hundreds of dollars, would be big trouble for Ableton. Same for issues of data loss, crashing, etc. So introducing a change to the bedrock between beta and release would be super sketchy.

I'd bet the farm PDC isn't fixed, based on the descriptions so far.

i dunno about your logic. the previous betas have typically had several revisions. in fact, there are were still Live 8 beta versions being released in the last few months with MAJOR changes... 64 bit???

Q: how do you eat an elephant?
A: one bite at a time

it's not like they're coming from the ground up at Ableton HQ and releasing version 1. everything that has been still has to be, while at the same time adding all the new features... i can see why you would think what your thinking and i'm not saying they will or will not fix PDC, but i don't think you should take the lack of anything in the beta of Live 9 to be final at this stage.

[massenmedium]

That makes sense to me.

Obviously we're speculating quite a bit but it seems like a lot of work has to have been done with the automation system - maybe a complete reconstruction. Which means two things - 1) it now needs to be tested properly and 2) hopefully it's in a state ready for some more big changes which had previously been precluded. i.e. latency correction.

[sdfak1234]

why in the world are you using it if it's this disappointing? sell your license. do it now while people are disappointed in Live 9. people holding out for Live 9 wanting to skip 8 will buy it. it sounds like a complete waste of money for you.

Stupid question, deserves no answer... but I will tell you this, if PDC isn't fixed in Live9, you can bet I will be selling my license and your bang on, it does sound like a waste of money to me.

[agent314]

Why is it a stupid question?

If you're dissatisfied with the program, why continue to use it?

[sdfak1234]

if Ableton are working on the fix they should let us know, not keep it secret just in case it doesn't work.

Remember how well that worked out for them with Share? 3 years later and there are still people who act like them not releasing Share pulled out the lynchpin of their entire creative process

And imagine how many more people would be complaining if they announced they were working on a fix but had to abandon it?

You've seen how much people bitch even when Ableton implements the things they WANT - let alone if they announced something and ended up pulling the plug again

This response makes me want to pull my hair out. Yeah. I remember share, that was a different Ableton disaster, exactly how is this in defense of Ableton? basically what you're saying is that they may be *trying* to fix the PDC problems but they might not be able to, in which case don't tell us? same story, they're not able to do the job. 1.7 million users, 3 years since the last version. Do you think I care about people bitching to Ableton, bitch away, if they support their users and they still take our money, they deserve derision. This is real simple, if they can't do it, they don't deserve praise...

I do not understand the anti bitch/wine/moan parade on Ableton forum, I've wasted a large chunk of the last 10 years dealing with Ableton problems, many others have also, and we don't get solutions, the very least we can do is bitch about it. We don't need a bunch of people telling us not to bitch, it's such a cliché on this forum as well, write something else.

[sdfak1234]

Why is it a stupid question?

If you're dissatisfied with the program, why continue to use it?

I think it is a stupid question and here's why... I kinda said it in my original reply and I think it's kind of obvious. Professional software requires investment in money, time and resources, you need to spend years learning it, becoming proficient at it, you have to buy into your platform, money, hardware... I feel I am like many people who have bought into Ableton over the years. I'm not only a user, I'm also locked into to it's specific features and now like a crack fiend and his dealer I am beholden to them to support my platform... I was actually going to go on for a few more paragraphs but it's all hot air at this point, feel like I've wasted enough energy.

[sdfak1234]

Why is it a stupid question?

If you're dissatisfied with the program, why continue to use it?

Put simply, it is the only app that has the features I need. I need more these features to work though. I am not excited about learning a whole new work flow but I'll do it because issues like the PDC prevent me from doing the kind of work I want to do.

[H20nly]

make up your mind. is it the only app that has what you want or the only app that has what you don't want?

[TBAAV]

if Ableton are working on the fix they should let us know, not keep it secret just in case it doesn't work.

Remember how well that worked out for them with Share? 3 years later and there are still people who act like them not releasing Share pulled out the lynchpin of their entire creative process

Here's a real life example: I recently, after a long time of pressure from friends, made the jump to Ableton from Reason. I decided to give it a try and I must admit I really like it. There are some minor annoyances, but I can live with them (for now). However this whole PDC thing has gotten me worried. It was officially aknowledged almost 2 years ago and said to be high on their list, yet nothing has seemingly happened.
I'm ready right now to throw down the money for Live, but I'm holding off and are actually looking at alternatives due to this issue.
To me it's alarming that a pretty serious issue like this is not fixed (and hasn't been for nearly 2 years) as it's a concern for a lot of people (as seen by this thread), and the lack of official word on where Ableton is in this regard isn't making it any better.

I, for one, would very much like some official word that they are working actively on this. I'd be cool with it not being ready for Live 9 release, but at least shortly after that as an update. That would make me go to the shop and finally click buy on the items that have been in my cart for about a week or so.

Do note that I am producing and not live DJ'ing, to give you an idea of my wished utilisation of Live.

So right now the lack of communication from Ableton is directly costing them money in my case, which might end up going to some other company.

[sdfak1234]

make up your mind. is it the only app that has what you want or the only app that has what you don't want?

I can barely comprehend this. This isn't difficult to understand H2Only. Live's features are incomplete after a long period of upgrades. It sucks. For me, no PDC improvements, no upgrade. That's it, my 2 cents, no need for any combative weird questioning responses. Are you seriously pretending that you don't understand my point of view?, it's crystal clear.

[H20nly]

it's just that you say that it won't do the job for you on the one hand but then go on to say that it's the only tool that does the job on the other hand.

i guess what i'm saying is that maybe it takes 2 tools to do the job you want to do. i know though... that's the last thing you want to hear.

i'm sorry if i came off rude. i'm trying to stop that. i'm just sick of funken popping up in every thread with his self promoting "help" and i think i took out some of my frustration with his SPAMish guerrilla marketing campaign out on you.

[Tone Deft]

why in the world are you using it if it's this disappointing? sell your license. do it now while people are disappointed in Live 9. people holding out for Live 9 wanting to skip 8 will buy it. it sounds like a complete waste of money for you.

Stupid question, deserves no answer... but I will tell you this, if PDC isn't fixed in Live9, you can bet I will be selling my license and your bang on, it does sound like a waste of money to me.

just trying to maybe be an influence that ultimately makes you happier.

this stuff is expensive and there are other options. I too am a Live crack addict, I don't rely on it for an income, I rely on it to be fun. honestly, with the lack of WOW in Live 9 I've had thoughts of checking out other software just to spice up my music life. new features have kept the software fun for me. I like to use DAWs, I don't NEED to. I mostly like to chill out at home, make beats, play guitar and whatnot to them, get bored with a beat and start over.

H2O - and many people do use multiple DAWs.

[sdfak1234]

it's just that you say that it won't do the job for you on the one hand but then go on to say that it's the only tool that does the job on the other hand.

i guess what i'm saying is that maybe it takes 2 tools to do the job you want to do. i know though... that's the last thing you want to hear.

i'm sorry if i came off rude. i'm trying to stop that. i'm just sick of funken popping up in every thread with his self promoting "help" and i think i took out some of my frustration with his SPAMish guerrilla marketing campaign out on you.

It's all good, I am kinda flying off the lid a little, it just makes me furious, people see this as bitching but they don't understand, this is actually a big chunk of my LIFE, it's not just a program for me. Funny though, your first sentence is absolutely true, and that's the predicament I hate being in, it feels like being in an abusive relationship, sometimes you just gotta walk away from it.

[H20nly]

these days i try to do everything with Live, which admittedly hasn't been much lately, but it's true i use Cubase, FL Studio and Soundforge too.

i don't use a lot of plugins though... which ironically is one of the reasons this topic interests me so much. i want to make sure that i'm not making things worse if/when i do use them.

[sdfak1234]

I've got a Cubase license as well, I used that before Ableton and despite being wholly proficient, the kind of work I'm doing just doesn't lend itself to using multiple DAWs, I need the workflow to be streamlined, I have tried it, given it a serious go, but the process is too slow for me, and I can't stand the features I lose in either situation... the thing that gets me is that it seems to be Live had a pretty clear cut laundry list of features that they needed to work on, core features, they're really obvious, and they had plenty of time... I don't think it's a case of not be able to please everyone, I consider these things incomplete features, I mean, session automation should've been there all along, it was always weird that it wasn't despite the explanation, PDC on automation should've been there all along, I don't get it.