Ghost Mutt wrote:how many is a 'few' and what are they?
timing dependent VST or AU (i.e. tempo synced delays, filters, gates, arps, etc.) placed in a series after
any other plugin with latency
VST or AU plugin with sufficient processing latency (i.e. high-end EQs and dynamics processors);
3) As of Live 8.3, any of the built-in Live Devices in this list
There are two issues at play here:
1) Automation being moved audibly out of grid sync due to inserting latency inducing plugins
. The return audio
is compensated by Live's PDC. (2 and 3 above)
2) Automation and
return audio being audibly out of grid sync due to inserting timing dependent plugins
in series after latency inducing plugins
. The return audio is not
compensated by Live's PDC. (1 above)
The following is a clear and succinct explanation from Ableton from Jan '11.
Hope that clarifies things, some.
*Edited the first and last entry for accuracy. Timing dependent effects only lose polling of the transport timing when inserted after plugins which induce latency.
Following upon this, I wanted to just add a personal thought, as to why this is so important.
Because this issue only happens when using very specific types of processing in a certain order, the micro-management to avoid the issue is overly complicated. If the issue itself were less complicated, we'd be able to work around it and manage it ourselves in a more reasonable manner. Once things like automation nodes get visibly off the grid, it becomes very difficult to keep track of large projects in one's mind, or on paper, of what needs to be manually compensated for, and where.
Finding the latency for every plugin in a project is not a casual process. It is possible to create a database of every plugin's latency, and which plugins poll the timing transport, and what they will do when combined together in series. Then we could take that information and delay tracks forward, or manually scoot them, to line up with any delays in audio from other tracks. However, there is still the problem that moving an entire track of automation in Live is not handled in the same manner as it is with moving audio, and often has to be done on a per node level.
The point is that managing all of this requires a complicated process with a considerable amount of time and effort. And when other applications are able to make this a complete non-issue, or at least bring the complexity down to a more manageable level, then that has a noticeable effect on the project. Time and resources go into other areas of the production, and it's not something one worries about it. Having trust in one's tools is a big deal, and can influence confidence and trust in other areas of the process, such as the composition and performance. For some artists, creation can be a delicate process.
That is why I feel that this is important, and is why I would like to see this addressed in a future version of Live.