LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

[ze2be]

Well, to be fair Live can get a lot more complex then a standard linear DAW. And thus can complicate timing, pdc, and so on at a whole other level. Some of it is logical. How many DAWs can create a feedback loop with the sends? Or what about deep nested plugin racks with dry/wet functions, with internal sends that can even be sent to the main sends, and a bucket load of side chaining all over the place.

So, im very curious how these kinds of spaghetti racks handles pdc and automation in BitWig.

[ze2be]

to be fail?

fixed

[Mr-Bit]

[beatmunga]

If only...

[theophilus]

latency inducing plugins:

testing a lot of freeware & some payware plugins. don't know if there is a wiki we could put this on somewhere.
i'm lazy, the latencies are what presonus reports for the track @48KHz. Don't know what it does for 1-2 sample latency
(i think someone put how to show that earlier, but i can't find it now... so if you know, post it)

note: instruments weren't checked (yet) to verify latency was reported correctly, but are probably right.

latency:
bootEQ mkII (3ms)
g200 KeroVee (14.1 ms)
DDMF LP10 (256 ms)
GSnap (10ms)
Amplitube 3 (0.1ms)
TRacks Black 76 (0.1ms)
TRacks White 2A (0.1ms)
TRacks Classic Comp (1.4ms)
TRacks Opto Comp (0.1ms)
TRacks Vint Comp 670 (0.1ms)
TRacks ProgEQ 1A (0.1ms)
Proximity (2.4ms)
FerricTDS (0.1ms)
Voxengo EssEQ (4.0ms)
Voxengo Boogex (2.0ms)

Alchemy (1.3ms)
u-He Bazille (0.3ms)
u-He Diva (0.3ms)
u-He Zebra2 (0.3ms)


no latency (reports 0.0ms):
blockfish
bootEQ
modern plugins seventh sign, lost angel (assume others as well)
DDMF IIEQ Pro
blue cat free stuff
other GVST stuff except GSnap
IZotope Vinyl
Klanghelm DC8C
Korg MS20 FX
Pod Farm 2
Reverberate (zero latency mode)
Absynth5 FX
Reaktor 5 FX (tried with Native Yardstick, looked OK)
PSP Nitro
RP-distort
RP-delay
rsmet frequency shifter
rsmet engineer's filter
de la mancha 65
TAL chorus 60
TAL dub
TC M30 reverb
MadShifta
Tone2 Bifilter
ValhallaDSP plugs
Density MKIII
ThrillSeekerLA
ThrillseekerXTC black (assume blue same)
Molot03
Waldorf D-Pole
WOK 100CC
XILS3 FX
DCAM FreeComp
dblue _glitch, _stretch,_tapestop
Electric-Q (free edition)

Arturia MiniMoogV
BigTick Rhino
CoFX Kubik
Phoscyon
Analog Warfare v3
Fabfilter One
Kamiooka
DSS-1
SampleTank 2.x
ImageLine DrumAxx
ImageLine Harmor
Korg MS20
LinPlug AlphaCM
Absynth 5
Kontakt 4
Massive
MoonSonoSX
SsdSampler
SonicProject OP-X Free
Dune BE
Zampler
Venom VB-303
TAL U-No-62
Tone2 Firebird
Waldorf Attack
Waldorf PPG Wave 2V
Wallander WIVI (pro player)
XILS 3
Vocaloid2
SonicOne Orchestral Strings
Scanned Synth CM


error (crash when inserted):
paris EQ

[ze2be]

Awesome! And thats a lot better statistics then I had hoped for.
Did you try the internal Ableton plugs?

[Dr_Hdt]

Now, really? You guys want to open up a list (or really scary - have this as a wallpaper) and calculate the device chain before you insert a plugin while your producing MUSIC?!
Godness. Long ago that I was in the forum here..

BTW @ze2be: I don't think he manage to put ableton plugins in the Studio One environment. But if he is able to, please send me a message! Some of the plugins are sweet

[theophilus]

Now, really? You guys want to open up a list (or really scary - have this as a wallpaper) and calculate the device chain before you insert a plugin while your producing MUSIC?!
Godness. Long ago that I was in the forum here..

BTW @ze2be: I don't think he manage to put ableton plugins in the Studio One environment. But if he is able to, please send me a message! Some of the plugins are sweet

actually, the way i would do it, would be to put the latency-causing plugins in a folder, and know not to choose one of those in cases where it might cause pdc issues.

latency measurement in studio one is very simple.. for ableton devices, 3dot already has a good list for effects, and for instruments i'll have to use a volume shaper in conjunction with another zero-latency instrument and see if we get any extra latency when we add in the second live instrument. not easy at all, and the delays are often very small (maybe if i go up to 999 bpm it will be more obvious already am overdue on stuff today, maybe i will try that next week.

[andydes]

Now, really? You guys want to open up a list (or really scary - have this as a wallpaper) and calculate the device chain before you insert a plugin while your producing MUSIC?!
Godness. Long ago that I was in the forum here..

BTW @ze2be: I don't think he manage to put ableton plugins in the Studio One environment. But if he is able to, please send me a message! Some of the plugins are sweet

I like to thank people who take the time to give us this kind of information whether I personally make use of it or not.

I think it's more to help people avoid high latency plugs before automation or clocked synced effects.

Thinking about effect order whilst making MUSIC? Unbelievable.

[Dr_Hdt]

Thinking about effect order whilst making MUSIC? Unbelievable.

YES, of course! Totally different story and far away from this context. This could fill an other thread, why its not so wise to limit before compression. Or sidechaining tracks that are compressed in the bus again.

[William]

Good idea on making a list of latency inducing plugins. I've got studio one as well so I'll try to test some and add to the list when I get a chance.

[andydes]

Thinking about effect order whilst making MUSIC? Unbelievable.

YES, of course! Totally different story and far away from this context. This could fill an other thread, why its not so wise to limit before compression. Or sidechaining tracks that are compressed in the bus again.

Not completely different. Just another thing to consider. Do you put your linear phase eq before or after beat repeat? Both should sound the same in theory, but one way round leaves you asking for pdc issues.

And cut out the eyerolling. It's the smiley for having a stroke.

[petit nuage]

thanks theophilius !

[ze2be]

latency measurement in studio one is very simple.. for ableton devices, 3dot already has a good list for effects, and for instruments i'll have to use a volume shaper in conjunction with another zero-latency instrument and see if we get any extra latency when we add in the second live instrument. not easy at all, and the delays are often very small

Aha, I see. I though you did the research in Live.

[Sage]

If this issue with Live was to be fixed, what impact could it have on Live as a live tool and the "modular" nature of the software?