Surprised by Ableton Reverb

[condra]

I like the IK Multimedia CSR reverbs on my return channels, but I use Lives reverb on synths and snares regularly.

[donmich]

Synnack,

Does the new convolution have any modulation or "place around the room" code like Altiverb?

Yep.

F'ing A. Thanks bro.

[Willyum]

I think almost every device in Live is pretty top notch!.... But I also think 90-95% of the presets are complete trash for anything other than electronica. Live is my absolute favorite DAW for work-flow... But I always have to run to Reason to get quality Soul, Hiphop, Club and even Electronica (D&B, IDM, Dubstep) presets. The devices in Live are all very capable of creating amazing sounds (if you have the time and know-how), they just seem to keep dropping the ball on their sound designers, Ableton needs to reach out to sound designers from all the different genres. But I guess that's just me, I love soulful, round, warm sounds that get the shoulders bouncing and the head nodding with a lazy flow.

I can't think of not 1 of the Drum Rack kits that inspire me to do anything, but 90% of the drum kits in Reason (130+ kits from Kong and another 120+ kits in ReDrum and I didn't even count the Rex kits in the Dr.Octo...) are all ready to go with no tweaking needed! And that's just the drums... I feel the same about their synths and samplers...

[any1particular]

]

I think almost every device in Live is pretty top notch!.... But I also think 90-95% of the presets are complete trash for anything other than electronica. Live is my absolute favorite DAW for work-flow... The devices in Live are all very capable of creating amazing sounds (if you have the time and know-how), they just seem to keep dropping the ball on their sound designers, Ableton needs to reach out to sound designers from all the different genres. But I guess that's just me, I love soulful, round, warm sounds that get the shoulders bouncing and the head nodding with a lazy flow.

I can't think of not 1 of the Drum Rack kits that inspire me to do anything, but 90% of the drum kits in Reason (130+ kits from Kong and another 120+ kits in ReDrum and I didn't even count the Rex kits in the Dr.Octo...) are all ready to go with no tweaking needed! And that's just the drums... I feel the same about their synths and samplers...

I totally agree though I don't use Reason much...I prefer Spectrasoncs RMX Trillian Monisphere adn others...but for sure Ableton REALLY 'seems to keep dropping the ball on their sound designers, Ableton needs to reach out to sound designers from all the different genres.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lv1PhQ34o

[evon]

I think almost every device in Live is pretty top notch!.... But I also think 90-95% of the presets are complete trash for anything other than electronica. Live is my absolute favorite DAW for work-flow... But I always have to run to Reason to get quality Soul, Hiphop, Club and even Electronica (D&B, IDM, Dubstep) presets. The devices in Live are all very capable of creating amazing sounds (if you have the time and know-how), they just seem to keep dropping the ball on their sound designers, Ableton needs to reach out to sound designers from all the different genres. But I guess that's just me, I love soulful, round, warm sounds that get the shoulders bouncing and the head nodding with a lazy flow.

I can't think of not 1 of the Drum Rack kits that inspire me to do anything, but 90% of the drum kits in Reason (130+ kits from Kong and another 120+ kits in ReDrum and I didn't even count the Rex kits in the Dr.Octo...) are all ready to go with no tweaking needed! And that's just the drums... I feel the same about their synths and samplers...

While reading your post I had to stop mid-way to see where you were writing from and I wasn't surprised. Those are my sentiments exactly. My opinion of Live's devices is like having some quality building blocks and it is then up to ones creativity to build something from the ground up. Almost every parameter involved has to be tweaked. So if one is not aware of all there is, then problems could arise leading to a poor sounding project.

[vitalispopoff]

(…) I love soulful, round, warm sounds that get the shoulders bouncing and the head nodding with a lazy flow.

I can't think of not 1 of the Drum Rack kits that inspire me to do anything, but 90% of the drum kits in Reason (130+ kits from Kong and another 120+ kits in ReDrum and I didn't even count the Rex kits in the Dr.Octo...) are all ready to go with no tweaking needed! And that's just the drums... I feel the same about their synths and samplers...

I think, Your'e missing an exact point of fun with music then. At least for me the music creation w/ computers, synths and all that stuff is all about messing with knobs. I decided to limit my workflow to ableton native devices around 2006, and to be honest since then I've made a huge progress in music production.
That's fact though: I'm into synthetic sounds and rather try to avoid sampling and looping as much as possible, but on the other hand I avoid using ready-made presets, and this makes the music production real fun.
Disadvantage of that is probably the sound quality of my productions - it's just unpredictable: some tracks sound marvelous, but usually I get muddy and heavy sounding dub shit, but still even if it is just a deep house or drum and bass, I worked with the track as if it was an experimental.

[evon]

I guess different People have different ideas of what is fun in music production. For me it is getting the tracks to groove together.

For others it is more into getting a desired sound. Every production needs both aspects among others, but different people have different leanings. I like creating digitally like how it was done in the old analog way....just pick up an instrument, turn on the recorder and record. Then mix then master.
In my style of music (RockSteady,) the essence of a project is mostly in the parts of the song that are without notes.

[glitchrock-buddha]

While I agree that eco mode can be good for a certain cold type of sound design (put to good use by monolake), I don't like it much otherwise. I find the high quality setting is the one that gets ringy and metallix, and it's just difficult to make it sound lush. Or to make it really wrap around the sound and become one with it, like good small space reverbs do.

[evon]

Oh shi>>tt!! Yes Reverb...Yes Live reverb presets are probably one of the few devices that work well with Rocksteady music.

[Willyum]

I had to stop mid-way to see where you were writing from and I wasn't surprised.

Jamrock? you from Jamaica Queens or Jamaica Country... I got both, I'm Born Jamaica Queens... Family from Old Harbor (St. Catherine... Yeah we country, But my cousins are up the road in Kingston)

I think, Your'e missing an exact point of fun with music then.

I'm into synthetic sounds and rather try to avoid sampling and looping as much as possible, but on the other hand I avoid using ready-made presets,

Not Missing the point... I've designed plenty of sounds... some were good, some were pure trash! Some I even uploaded to the community years ago. Also I like various styles if music Some days I'll use a straight up and down full 4 bar unedited loop and some scratches... some days every sound is built from scratch... And some days Everything is found-sounds (sampling buses starting up, microphone in a box and drop it, Banging on the walls in the elevator, finger drumming on my desk, beatbox and humming... etc) then EQ, Compress and distort the crap out of it to get something different all together...

But then there's the Rock Band... Years and years of great music from just playing drums, guitar and bass (or 1 bassguitar and girlfriend on drums if you're The White Stripes).... 3 classic instruments, millions of songs, all different! My point of that is as long as the sounds are quality, even if everybody used them, your gonna have unique sounds anyway from different peoples playing styles...
So Just because I have a J.Dilla Bass, doesn't mean my project is gonna sound like a Dilla wanna-be, cause I'm a play my keys the way I play em. Look at how many sampled sounds Portishead used.... They sound absolutely nothing like anyone else, even started a new Genre.

I think the sound designers at Propellerhead understood that long ago, so they made... Original sounds, real instrument sounds, Classic sounds, sounds sampled right off of other records and other sources, thick sounds, thin sounds Foley sounds... but most importantly Made sure they all sounded great and varied, for the many different varying people! Live has some nice sounds, but mostly for electronic music, so their mostly in the 1-trick-pony game. Reason has sounds for everybody (including electronic... and in my opinion, even better electronic sounds than Live). Having GREAT presets does not stop anyone from designing custom sounds if they decide to... But having crappy presets does limit the person who just wants to get on and play MUSIC.

And Ooooh I know there are Ableton Fan-Boys out there that are just dying to tell me to go back to using just Reason and get off the forum.... Well...go sit and spin! I HATE FAN-BOYS!!! Like I've said in many post, Live is by FARRR my favorite DAW because the workflow is unmatched (well, we'll see what BITWIG does...), and I do feel the devices are well done, But Live is NOT a perfect DAW! When the sound Library becomes great and they add my 'time stretch/pitch shift' to the Simpler/Sampler.... and they add your _____(insert 'timing', 'Ms. Pinky', 'custom curves', multi-device CV control' etc. here), THEN I will be ready to call Live the ultimate stand-alone DAW for ME. Did I mention how much I hate fan-boys and yes-men?! When I bash a certain aspect of Live, it's to keep Ableton on their toes, and to get me the ultimate music tool I've always dreamed of.

[Willyum]

vitalispopoff, that fan-boy comment was not directed at you...

[steko]

old Henke/Monolake Reverb post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60162&p=503462&#p503462

[agent314]

I am an admitted Live fanboy and I have to say I am continually dismayed at how mediocre so many of the presets that come with Suite are.

For the longest time I wrote off Operator as crap because most of the presets are so clunky and unusable for my purposes, and then I discovered how powerful and versatile and useful it really is.

Same with the drum kits - minus the decently sampled acoustic kits and passable 808/909s, the drums are marginally useful at best.

I remember 3phase enjoyed the fact that the presets were not so good because it inspired people to make their own - I like that.

Same is true for the effects but less so, since there is a more limited range of variability with them compared to the instruments

[radiance2004]

ValhallaDSP ValhallaRoom
+ Sounds like space dust
+ Bargain price
- Sounds like space dust
- No low cut
- Pointlessly big interface

Verdict: Cheap arse

No low cut is a non issue since we're able to group in Ableton (what's in a name)

Big interface can be rescaled.....seems you've only scratched the surface here.

To me, ValhallaRoom beats everything I tried except maybe a real Bricasti M7...it did beat the impulses from the Bricasti though.
Rob Papen verb sounds ok -ish...but so do a lot of other reverbs. Nothing new or remotely interesting to me.

IMHO, it all comes down to what sounds you like. If you've grown accustomed to the lexicon sound (or whatever algo verb), you'll not like Valhalla...Just a matter of taste...

[filterstein]

IMHO, it all comes down to what sounds you like. I've you've grown accustomed to the lexicon sound (or whatever algo verb), you'll not like Valhalla...Just a matter of taste...

I'm a huge lexicon fanboy (224,70,80,15II)and still like and own valhallaroom.
Valhalla shimmer might be a better choice for that kind of sound.
Also his free ValhallaFreqEcho sounds lexicon like fat.

About trying EOS reverb; yes there are no demo's.
But i know from personal experience that you really get your money back without questions asked when you don't like it.