Moog Sub Phatty - lower cost Moog with big features

[beats me]

@beats, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise but maybe share a perspective on where some are coming from when it comes to Analogue hardware vs Software.

Sure it would be great to have a polyphonic Moog with mono mode, and all the features packed in.
Yet this kind of defeats the purpose, and would be hella expensive.
That purpose being, you buy this one thing, it does that one thing better than the rest.
It's SO stupid simple you dont really need presets, but it's cool if they give you room for 6, because ideally you will only use your favorite 6 that you have slowly crafted over time. You will know this thing like the back of your hand, and dialing in a new patch will be a simple as tuning a guitar.
These limitations become more of a conducive element to creating, as opposed to having limitless abilities to achieve creation.
Did I say it sounds bad ass?
Did I say it doesn't tax your CPU?
It also responds to program changes from Live clips effortlessly and Live never hiccups as a result of that.
Outboard synths are hella fun to sequence using Live, and you dont have need any screen space to tweak them.

Dont get me wrong, I can make some pretty killer bass patches in Operator, but when I got a Moog, it turned into, whats the point of ever wasting my time dialing in Operator.

In the studio, maybe things are a bit different.
Yet when thinking of how I want to be a live performer, my custom rig and custom style becomes important too.

Lastly I would consider Moog's entry level synths the SlimPhatty or the Minataur.
Compared to the money I have spent on software, I could have both synths for less, and once having them, my software is what becomes redundant and lacks freshness.

For me, what I dont understand about outboard synths these days, is that there is still a market for VA synths.

That said, I'm still on the fence about a freaking iPad, that SAMPLR app is calling me.

I totally get the functionality and sound quality, but what I don’t get is not getting what I would consider standard features in one unit without dropping $2,000+…or at least that is what it sounds like. And I don’t think slapping that tech in justifies the added $1,000 in build and parts cost. As far as standard I’m talking plenty of knobs and buttons, LED rings, and presets existing and able to save your own.

PS. SAMPLR is cool but extremely limited.

[JuanSOLO]

As far as standard I’m talking plenty of knobs and buttons, LED rings, and presets existing and able to save your own.

I agree 100% with the plenty of Knobs and LED rings.
Yet I have a few friends that wanted the Minataur because there was no preset mechanism at first.
Some guys really dig that, they want to know it, and dial it in, and they want it to be slightly off each time.
Some folks like it that you dial some sound, the tempeture is just so, record it because you'll never dial it in that way again, lost forever except the recording. beats me? but yeah, I sorta get that.

[beats me]

Whenever Moog releases one of their new watered down pieces of hardware I check it out, look at the price and its limitations, and then decide to pass on it. I’m sure there are plenty of other people who do the same.

And to continue with the Apple comparison…I’m sure they don’t care. They're making money.

[DJTIVA]

I have to disagree about VA synths that they are for nothing these days. I also have a Virus TI2 and have to say that this is my most important synth. None of the many software synths I have and had comes close to this machine. Very versatile, no CPU usage of your PC or Mac and can be integrated as VST. The sound of the Virus is top notch in every regard.

I got tired of CPU problems although having powerful Macs. This is an other good point using hardware over software.

[Sage]

And to continue with the Apple comparison…I’m sure they don’t care. They're making money.

There is no comparison to be made between Moog & Apple other than being companies. Whenever Moog release a new product, it doesn't render the previous product obsolete.

Computer hardware & software is a permanent upgrade hell (Especially Apple). 2k on a hardware synth is pretty much all you'll ever spend on it if you look after it. Just spent £1.5k on a new MBP and will it even last me 5 years?


Releasing a VA in this day & age would be stupid, but still great to pick up on the cheap.


Also getting to play with a Doepfer Dark Energy last month was great fun, was there to ages. I've never had that sort of fun with a soft synth, regardless of how feature packed they are, which usually makes them worse.

[JuanSOLO]

I got tired of CPU problems although having powerful Macs.

I can see that as reason enough, I withdraw my previous statement.

Whenever Moog release a new product, it doesn't render the previous product obsolete.

Computer hardware & software is a permanent upgrade hell (Especially Apple). 2k on a hardware synth is pretty much all you'll ever spend on it if you look after it.

precisely.
and to add to that, the value retains full price most of the time, and in 20 years, may even quadruple in value.
exactly the opposite of computer tech.

regardless of how feature packed they are, which usually makes them worse.

I would say stifling, or counter productive.

That said, Tempest is hella packed with features and still getting updated to work even better.

[beats me]

I didn't say Moog was comparible to Apple on every single business and product point and decision. I mentioned specifics.

[Sage]

I didn't say Moog was comparible to Apple on every single business and product point and decision. I mentioned specifics.

Even those specifics aren't comparable in the slightest.

[beats me]

Any successful company that sells respected quality products at a premium price can be compared to Apple on some levels.

But if you’re just going to devolve this into an Apple hating parade then I’m not going to debate it with you.

[JuanSOLO]

yeah, how many employees work at Apple vs Moog.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say folks soldering boards at Moog actually care about the end result, actually care that his/her work will last me a good 10+ years of my monetary investment.

I'm thinking the assembly line employees at Apple dont "feel" like their caring, has as much weight, hence "I cant wait to get home and eat dinner. They probably feel expendable.
However, I imagine this changes way up on the Hierarchy, where you have people that care, but a huge multi billion dollar committee that cares about a lot of different things like,
How can we spend less and make more,
How can we out do Samsung,
How can we poke fun at Microsoft,
How can we make a good product yet make people think they have to get a new one every time we make a slight upgrade.

Even that last part I find difficult to relate to Moog, because they have to be aware that their customers are making a lifetime investment, not an annual one.

[beats me]

Even that last part I find difficult to relate to Moog, because they have to be aware that their customers are making a lifetime investment, not an annual one.

Then why release a bunch of watered down versions with glaring limitations that even you agree are there if it’s not to hopefully get people to drop more money on the flagships? Or even buy multiple versions? You can’t tell me they aren’t aware of the common features people would like to see in a mid priced (still high) model. But is there more money to be made in narrowing down to a single unit with these standard features, or releasing a bunch of starter kit models?

[Sage]

It allows people with less money to enter into the world of analogue synthesis.

The Minimoog was a "starter" model in comparison to Moog's flagship modulars in the 70s.

[JuanSOLO]

Maybe I wasn't being clear,
To some these seem like limitations, or watered down.
To many hardcore analogue synth heads they see those things as a positive, not a negative.
And those are the folks who have 2G's in the bank waiting in line to get the next one if they wish.

Personally, I find LED encoders a plus, but many cant stand em.
Yet I dont necessarily find it limiting, it's more of a preference I would just live without.

When I first saw the Sub Phatty I thought, "shit what does this mean for my Slim Phatty"
Thats the Apple talking,
My Slim Phatty was an investment, it's not going anywhere
So now the decision is, am I going to get a Sub Phatty, not anytime soon, I got more than enough stuff to make music.
Do I wish I had a choice between sub and slim a couple years ago, hell yeah.
Yet I still may have bought the Slim because of the size and price, AND because I'm not an analogue purists.
I am currently step sequencing the Slim Phatty with and APC40 controlling the new MonoSequencer M4L patch, it's bliss.

[Sage]

Any successful company that sells respected quality products at a premium price can be compared to Apple on some levels.

But if you’re just going to devolve this into an Apple hating parade then I’m not going to debate it with you.

I've already mentioned that I use Apple computers.

Both companies sit very differently within their industries, so it is impossible to compare the two.
Moog - Less likely to see in homes and more likely to see in professional studios.
Apple - More likely to see in homes and less likely to see powering say, a financial services company with a network of national branches.

Moogs are handbuilt in the USA generally (Not too sure all their products are), Apple is factory assembled in China.

[continuous]

the new MonoSequencer M4L patch, it's bliss.

What is this please?