LIVE 5 great product going BAD!

mosca · Post by **mosca** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:42 pm

Olaf - i'm already discussing the glitch thing with Andreas at Ableton

but thanks for your offer

mo

amo · Post by **amo** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:08 pm

Just as another exemple, I use Pro tols on mac , LE and TDM, maybe version 6.4 or something (ok, not the last one) and sometimes, at certain zoom levels, you won't see a waveform but numbers instead... Even more annoying, bounce will fail a lot of times, after the bounce is performed, with an esoteric message that nobody understands on the boards, and to those digidesign doesn't dare answering.... Not to say that pro tools costs a lot, especially a TDM...

Just to give some exemple of a soft manufacturer attitude. I think Ableton ain't bad. At least, you get heard. I'm not giving this as excuses for the bugs you still find in Live 5, but I'm pretty sure they'll at least get polished in a not too far future.

Cheers,
amo

majestic · Post by **majestic** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:32 pm

I had some problems with the Live 5 beta re a couple of Spectrasonics products, but a reinstall of 'em fixed that, and I'm not getting any audio glitches, so...

mosca wrote:before this thread disolves into 'ableton's great'

Ableton's great

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:45 pm

I, too, feel that the open beta test phase is a good thing. How could any one company test their product on so many different computers? And the users get a sneak preview of what's coming.
Personally, I've done two tracks on Live 5 already. Call it anything - I'll call it inspiring.

And Re the first post in this thread: Live 5 has crashed very rarely on my Book.

Have a nice week-betatesting-end all of you!
R.

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:39 pm

The beta test is absolutely a good thing, and it's postively the case that any small company providing multi-platform products (and even large companies) can not release without it.

Regarding release candidacy, i'd have to say that looking at the beta forum, there is a large number of unlocked threads indicating open bugs, and I'd have to say that the number appears to increase, not decrease. It's a day by day battle against bugs, not the kind of 'mopping up' you'd like to see. But that can also change day by day.

I'd also have to say that I was very surprised at the number and the scope of features that are being added to Live 5, it's a very ambitious release. There are some features I will make little or no use of, MP3s is one of them, but I can see why it would be useful to many.

Here's what I think is a pretty sure thing: look at the specs for the systems that are at the top of the performance chart, people with those systems are having fewer problems. But if you are towards the top of that chart and you are having problems, then you *should* yell loud and long, and try to find people with similar systems having the same problems.

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:00 pm

How come yall are still beta testing?
When I click the link to the download page it forwards me to the main screen

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:25 pm

Beta testing with a core group of users is absolutely neccessary. There is no possible way that a software company could build as many environments as the users have. Every configuration is different. This means that without beta testers there may be some major issue with a certain audio, video, or other concurrently running software. Users who are very interested in the strength of a release are very willing to contribute to the process as this ensures that as many issues as possible are addressed so there is a virtually bug free release.

And there will always be bugs. That is just a fact. Since not everybody uses applications the same way or has the same configuration that means that A) not many people will see it B) that it is the first time it happens. Software companies need to release their software at a certain point in order to start putting capitol back into the software. There is a breaking point where you have to determine that if only 2 out of every thousand people have the occurance of a bug then it makes more sense to release the product, gain some capitol, and be able to refocus the task of the developers to go from building the whole app to specifically addressing these issues.

You needn't participate if it irks you or you think it is being pushed to users. I don't really get your line of thinking there except to say that you are very unfamiliar with the software development process.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:35 pm

Beta 20 was rock-solid on both of my Macs. Been using Betas intensively all day since b15 with no problems.

This is absolutely incredible software created by some supremely talented visionaries and programmers that will revolutionize the music industry.

If you don't like it, there's always the Cakewalk stuff, or I've got an MPC going cheap.

mosca · Post by **mosca** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:36 pm

i just bought the boxed upgrade so we'll wait and see what happens

i'm off to play with live 5

mosca

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:10 pm

didn't read the whole first post, but to echo other reponses--no audio apps are released "perfect" and bug-free. Ableton Live is the most flexible and diversly used piece of musical software around--the way that Logic, PT, DP, and others are designed leads to everyone using those apps in more or less the same DAW way. Ableton, with its session and arranger views, and its unique interface and workflow possibilities, allows us to all use it in our own personal ways, and if you've ever gotten face-to-face with many other Live users and seen how they work, you'd see that we ALL are doing things differently. So for Ableton to even concieve of the innumerable ways people use their app., then try to test each workflow with a beta themselves is absurd. They are dead-on letting us test the beta with our unique work-flows, thus exposing bugs that couldn't be caught just by ableton and the testing scenarios they might use. Not to mention that people here are rabid just trying to get in on the limited beta release--its not like they forced us to beta test! Being that they are a smaller audio company, I think it is genius to have the beta forum, let a diverse crowd of users put the app through all sorts of tests while Ableton workers keep busy programming the software (rather than waste their time and resources "playing" with the software and testing it for bugs). Sure, this first version of 5 won't be perfect, but the beta forum allows them to come a LONG way in a SHORT time period. Congrats Abletons.

Ryan

chikabee · Post by **chikabee** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:24 pm

Hype Family Members? yeah i see them poping up like in this post.
But i think some of these people are missing the valid point..
Now that am in ver 5 if i find one more thing wrong with this software
am not giving one more red cent! because am starting to loose face as well
at some point - i think its like why would a car maker make cars and dont
tell you what kinda gas it takes? and you keep trying but have to wait for the
tow truck again to come ---- we be waiting for new updates here at ableton like it is going out of style.... but i think it is true if they need more money then ask for it?? Or Maybe it should be two different versions of Live for the valid reasons
the guy pointed out??!! i mean hmmmm just thinking about two versions
are a good idea with the points that he made shucks....

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:29 pm

I think that quandry has the best point here. First of all, Ableton cannot guess exactly what everyone's system config is....and there were definitely a bunch of posts in the beta where people's systems may have been an issue.

Also, Ableton does a good job of updating once the release is out there.

krank · Post by **krank** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:52 pm

hambone1 wrote: This is absolutely incredible software created by some supremely talented visionaries and programmers that will revolutionize the music industry.

If you don't like it, there's always the Cakewalk stuff, or I've got an MPC going cheap.

I cringe at spending the time pointing out how stupid this is - I realise the poster is probably young and full of that youthful sparkle you can't reach through arguments. Yet it also expresses an attitude that seems too common on this forum (though the phenomena is by no means unique to Ableton products).

In short:

Over-hype. The 'coolness' of Ableton being a new, innovative product DOES NOT ELEVATE IT - OR ITS DEVELOPERS - BEYOND CRITICISM. IT'S STILL FULL OF BUGS, COUNTER-INTUITIVE STUFF, ISSUES THAT MUST BE ADRESSED.

Please don't take the caps as impolite shouting, but I really want to get this point across.

Architect · Post by **Architect** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:02 pm

Yes we know Ableton Live 5 will have some bugs why do you think we went through a beta testing period. Stop complaining and post the problems your having to Abletons forum, they'll get it fixed. Or call tech support. You people ask for all these new features and then when they incorporate them the slightest thing that doesn't work as expected you throw in the towel.

Have some faith in the process, these programmers, developers, etc at Ableton aren't gods but they're pretty damn close!

zion15 · Post by **zion15** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:08 pm

i've nothing against people who love or hate live or any other piece of software but for god's sake, don't go saying other people are liars and fanboys or sour assholes just because their opinion and experiences aren't same as yours. if something works perfectly for someone then let him enjoy it and if someone thinks something sucks, let him say it aloud, at least as far as it's constructive.

for the record (and this is my opinion, read, o-p-i-n-i-o-n), live is a LOT more solid than my other daw soft (logic pro) that did cost double the amount. as far as i can remember, i've had no or very few crashes with live, except with some l5 beta version that had a pretty nasty reproducable bug that was fixed in the next beta... whereas logic does crash pretty often. i would be very very afraid to use logic in a live gig situation but not live.

live not a perfect software - i've never run across a perfect software that does something non-trivial and it probably is impossible to make one... but it's been a really good tool so far and it has performed adequately in my use.

look, practically every software has bugs and most of software has bugs or features that are really irritating to some people. i haven't encountered any of them in my normal use but i'm definitely interested in hearing which ones cause headache to you all in live (and probably ableton people are too despite of what some think) but i'm NOT interested in hearing stupid bashing and flaming, be it live lovers or haters.

come on people, be reasonable and easy for once - i'm fucking tired of all the bullshit and stupid heated debates the internet is full of. being polite to people isn't so hard, whether it be words of praise or venting the frustration.

LIVE 5 great product going BAD!

what did he call them?