LIVE 5 great product going BAD!

mosca · Post by **mosca** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:19 pm

mouse pointer visible when changing volumes or sends (an old bug thats resurfaced)

CPU drain seems to be higher in 5.0.1 than it was in 5.20B - explain that!

Still glitching and popping when starting clips (buffer up at 1024 - which, let's face it, is not on) making DJing a total no go

takes ages to quit program

seriously folks - i'm considering a total system wipe and reinstall for Live 5, if the problems i'm having dont get better after that then im boned

dont regret paying for it tho

mo

chikabee · Post by **chikabee** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:25 pm

Man you should not have even post here...
but since you did - A s i read your post like
with some of the others it makes me want to say again..
qote " there goes the neighborhood "
dam ....... whoa the politics of it all
what ever happen to the principal?
Man this is it... we are all on the same side of the fence
for christ sakes but hey call a peach a peach
everything is not peachy creamy here with Live5
i got it... something simple like midi timing?
this something that is basic DAW 101 that should be straight...
like i said in the other post.. The antics of it all is killing me
lets be real here if the proper time was taken to release and bring Live5
to market i dont care how long it takes if the program
is solid it would be worth... but all this nickle and diming is not good...
i think it is bad biz.. either way you or anyone else look at it...
i dont know about you but i need live to work correct
and more importantly consistant -- Dont make me pull out
some qotes from the Beta Board they did not lock it yet!
i shouldnt run into brick walls waiting for updates and checking
my list twice like am going christmas shopping or something..

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:29 pm

mosca wrote:mouse pointer visible when changing volumes or sends (an old bug thats resurfaced)

CPU drain seems to be higher in 5.0.1 than it was in 5.20B - explain that!

Still glitching and popping when starting clips (buffer up at 1024 - which, let's face it, is not on) making DJing a total no go

takes ages to quit program

seriously folks - i'm considering a total system wipe and reinstall for Live 5, if the problems i'm having dont get better after that then im boned

dont regret paying for it tho

mo

Bear with me if I'm stating things you already know. Is 3 or 4 equally sluggish compared to 5, or do they work as well as normal? The reason I ask is because I too am on a pc laptop, and was experiencing serious slowdowns a few summers back--the problem, HEAT. I have a P4 desktop-in-a-laptop processor, and the fan/heatsink design allows little mats of fiber and dust to build up between the fans and heatsink. As the dust mat gets thicker, and summer temperatures soar, the processor has to not work as hard soas not to overheat. I was able to diagnose my problem when my laptop just started shutting down to a black screen when rendering in Live, or rendering 3D models in a CAD program. These intensive tasks got the processor so hot the whole system justs shuts down to protect itself. Taking out the heatsink, cleaning it, and replacing the thermal coupling grease with quality artic silver grease made a HUGE difference, and I've had to do it every 9 months or so. If 3 and 4 are sluggish, or the whole os seems slow, you might want to check into it. Also--are you using external fw drives for your audio files and mp3s--I know using a seperate 7,200 RPM drive for recording and playing audio files, and using the internal 4,800 RPM drive just for the app. has also been a huge performance boost in Live. Sorry it this is obvious, OT, or just not helpful, but those are two things in my system that have made a big difference on Live's performance.

Ryan

mosca · Post by **mosca** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:33 pm

not really sure what youre saying here - im no fanboy - and i've already posted these in the correct forum, the point i'm making is...

i've just bought Live 5, downloaded and installed it and those were some issues i've found after 20mins messing about

i need live to play mp3's without glitching and popping (and CPU spikes)

as it stands right now on my system - it does not do this

of course there will be bugs (hell, i've been banging on about the impulse glitch since it came out) but i can live with the mouse cursor staying visible, i can live with the program taking ages to shut down - these are minor bugs that will be fixed in time.

this mp3 glitching however is. to me anyway, a major bug

as i've stated - i really want to rule out user error before i go off the deep end

mosca

PS - I've posted all the above points in the beta forum at some time or another

mosca · Post by **mosca** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:37 pm

ryan - i appreciate you taking the time to reply

windows is running fine, the proscessor fan comes on now and again - not constantly which would worry me. live 4 is still doing the business (obviously with no mp3 support) as it always has - plus im in scotland we dont get warm weather

i use an external glyph fw drive, so no problems there

krank · Post by **krank** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:44 pm

Architect wrote: Stop complaining and post the problems your having to Abletons forum, they'll get it fixed.

Uh - that seems to be exactly what some of us are trying to do here? The OP included (even if he wasn't too articulate about it).

Architect wrote: Or call tech support. You people ask for all these new features and then when they incorporate them the slightest thing that doesn't work as expected you throw in the towel.

Have some faith in the process, these programmers, developers, etc at Ableton aren't gods but they're pretty damn close!

There's just bound to be frustration involved when a particular tool of the trade doesn't seem up to par - and in choosing said tool from other available ones. After all it's about making a living for some, creative expression for most. The way a transport works, for instance, is pretty essential when it comes to workflow.

As to the Ableton crew being close to godlike - they're definately talented, but phew, are we supposed to stand in awe and wait for all problems to be solved according to The Grand Scheme Of Things?

loophead · Post by **loophead** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:47 am

Lots of valid points in this thread.

The-world-according-to-me:

Software is soft, flexible.
Hardware is hard in-flexible.
A core of real testers visible and invisible were working diligently.
Lots of 3rd Party plugin manufacturers were also working hard to get their products working properly.
Hundreds of users means hundreds of configurations in hard/soft's.
Hundreds of users trying to slam the system is quicker than a handful using the system.
Summer NAMM.
There is a curve in the release of most music products during the year and this is one critical moment in that curve.
Ableton deserve to make hay when they will get the most exposure in the marketplace.
Everyone deserves to see their families and get some sleep.
Live 5 is not written in stone it is now 5.0.1 and soon it will be 5.0.2
Keep giving them feedback so that your issues will be addressed.
Give feedback to third party manufacturers so that THEY will help address your issues.
We all wish everything was 'rock-solid'.
Hype is ephemeral and ones own reaction to it is a choice.
The universe is made of sound and we all wish to be heard...so keep it down in there ! The baby is trying to sleep !
Enjoy it we only have a moment in here.

sans soleil · Post by **sans soleil** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:36 am

from the original post: "medium to large size of people interanall"

oh how i laughed.

jdg · Post by **jdg** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:37 am

just wanted to be part of this awesome thread

jbible · Post by **jbible** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:09 am

Man mos. That sucks you are having so many problems. I have a track based around two instances of minimonsta I have been working on throughout the beta that was averaging around 70% cpu and now with the official release it is averageing around 55%. I guess it all depends on the application.

Also I have been hearing problems about waves plugins but I this track is also using several of them...
L1-Ultramazimizer, L2x3, and S1-Imager...and they are running very smoothly. I feel sorry for you guys who are having problems.

Hope the Abes work it out for you guys.

bensuthers · Post by **bensuthers** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:33 am

> i need live to play mp3's without glitching and popping (and CPU spikes)

MP3? MP3? MP3?

here's a couple of questions for you;

Is your entire library all at one bitrate?

why not convert your MP3 library to AIF or WAV ?

(after all, hard drive space (even on laptops) is cheap)

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:32 am

Pull ya head out.

No company will ever release a fully 100% bug free piece of software.

We'd be waiting until 2026 for Live5 if that was the case.

The beta strategy was well timed and goals were met.

Trackable errors were fixed before the beta, the beta allowed for further
testing on a variety of systems.

If you've ever released software you'd know that this is the hardest part of
the whole process, getting deployment and system compatibility down is
very hard. Let alone on a piece of software that runs on Mac + PC.

If you had bugs, then you should have posted about them.

Ableton have done a great job of this, I've seen many software companies
with nowhere near the professionalism.

Other than that..... I say Troll.

-Ben

chikabee · Post by **chikabee** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:58 am

What forum are these people reading from?
everyone here is reading from the source right?

zion15 · Post by **zion15** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:39 am

mosca,

mouse pointer isn't visible here with adjusting volumes / sends. i haven't had a chance of trying the cpu drain out extensively yet compared to last beta but it doesn't seem to be worse at least. there seems to be no glitching and popping starting clips, in 48khz and buffer of 256 samples. quitting about any set on takes something like 5 seconds which is very good in my books.

which is not to say that you're wrong with your problems at all - i know some if not all of the things you're mentioned are bugs that several people experience. it's just that they might be limited to either a specific platform (i still haven't tried installing live on my pc desktop), certain hardware combination or some way of working. and thus they might not have got the priority they would've deserved yet.

bensuthers,

live decodes mp3s to wav/aif in decoding cache on hd before analysing and playing them so it's not much use converting them by hand.

and once again everyone - there are bugs from minor glitches to major quirks people have posted but which haven't been fixed yet. that's a fact. there are also people who experience none of the major bugs and are happy with 5.0.1. that's a fact too. the former fact doesn't mean live 5 would be totally flawed, the latter fact doesn't mean live 5 wouldn't have outstanding bugs.

take it easy, continue sending those bug reports and feature wishes, get the upgrade now or wait until bugs are fixed, whatever you want to. but live doesn't get any better by arguing on the internet and saying it rocks / sucks.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:53 am

krank wrote:
hambone1 wrote: This is absolutely incredible software created by some supremely talented visionaries and programmers that will revolutionize the music industry.

If you don't like it, there's always the Cakewalk stuff, or I've got an MPC going cheap.
I cringe at spending the time pointing out how stupid this is - I realise the poster is probably young and full of that youthful sparkle you can't reach through arguments. Yet it also expresses an attitude that seems too common on this forum (though the phenomena is by no means unique to Ableton products).

In short:

Over-hype. The 'coolness' of Ableton being a new, innovative product DOES NOT ELEVATE IT - OR ITS DEVELOPERS - BEYOND CRITICISM. IT'S STILL FULL OF BUGS, COUNTER-INTUITIVE STUFF, ISSUES THAT MUST BE ADRESSED.

Please don't take the caps as impolite shouting, but I really want to get this point across.

I'm 47 years old. I've been involved with DAW production and live MIDI use for 15 years.

Live works perfectly for ME. I didn't say that it is a perfect product. But after working with so many products over time, it is refreshing to see Ableton pushing the envelope with innovation. Sure, there are bugs to be resolved. But they listen and respond. But rash, rude, sometimes illiterate non-constructive criticism doesn't help. That's why there is a bugs & problems, and a beta testing forum.

I love Live. It opens in 5 seconds (a little slower on my aging Powerbook), closes instantly, behaves predictably and never ceases to amaze me with the creativity it allows me to express.

I'm still looking for the 'youthful sparkle' button, though!

LIVE 5 great product going BAD!

Are you still using Logic? wtf....

dont be a nuddle WTF....