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 Post subject: Re: Novation SL MkI vs II
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:57 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Posts: 4369
Location: The Ableton Live Forum
Yeah it's a one time thing. You save the template and it loads automatically in any daw. You don't need to go to a specific template when you open a plug-in, it just knows what you're focused on. However you can also jump to any other device from the SL. It's the best of all worlds. That's another reason why it's so much better than midi. You don't need to put the device to a specific template for each different plug-in. The parameters update automatically because they are specific to the plug-in. The mapping saves with the plug-in wrapper. You can also save templates and put them on disk somewhere as backup. If you get a new one or something bad happens, you just load the template back as the default.

For plug-in automap (which they call automap universal), it's one specific template on the SL. This was template 40 on the SL mmi and I think it's 32 on the mkII. But the mkI actually has a handy little button to flip to automap universal any time from regular midi mode. On the mkI you use the dial to go to template 40. Easy too.

One caveat, if you're an AU user on the mac, I wouldn't bother with automap. Or change to VST. Because of automap I move away from AUs and eventually away from Logic too (towards Live and Studio One).

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 Post subject: Re: Novation SL MkI vs II
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 19372
Location: San Jose, CA
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
One caveat, if you're an AU user on the mac, I wouldn't bother with automap. Or change to VST. Because of automap I move away from AUs and eventually away from Logic too (towards Live and Studio One).



Annnnd that’s what kills it for me. I mostly use Logic now. Hasn’t it been buggy with AUs for a while and they’re not really showing interest in fixing that?

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 Post subject: Re: Novation SL MkI vs II
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Posts: 4369
Location: The Ableton Live Forum
beats me wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
One caveat, if you're an AU user on the mac, I wouldn't bother with automap. Or change to VST. Because of automap I move away from AUs and eventually away from Logic too (towards Live and Studio One).

Annnnd that’s what kills it for me. I mostly use Logic now. Hasn’t it been buggy with AUs for a while and they’re not really showing interest in fixing that?


No it's not buggy with AUs. It works exactly the same as with VSTs. It's AUs that are the problem. See, with AUs, there is something about the identification of the plug-in where they can't be wrapped and seen as the same plug-in. So the wrapped versions are not interchangeable. If you automap wrap a plug-in and open an old project, it will still load the regular plug-in. You have to load the automap version as a separate plug-in. Similarly if you save a project with the automap version, and then later ditch auto map (delete the automap server and get rid of the wrapped plug-ins, your project won't find the plug-in, it can't substitute the regular version. With VSTs, they are completely interchangeable. So you wrap plug-ins, all your old sets will use the auto map functionality if the plug-in is wrapped. It doesn't matter which is loaded. If you ever remove the auto map wrapped versions or delete automap entirely, everything continues to work normally.

To me automap and VST functionality in general is enough to ditch Logic for good. Besides, with Live and Studio One, I can't say I miss anything about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Novation SL MkI vs II
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:05 am
Posts: 86
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
...With VSTs, they are completely interchangeable. So you wrap plug-ins, all your old sets will use the auto map functionality if the plug-in is wrapped. It doesn't matter which is loaded. If you ever remove the auto map wrapped versions or delete automap entirely, everything continues to work normally...


Not true.
The wrapper adds 24bytes/6parameters to every preset chunk saved with te wrapped plugin (when you save a project for example). Some/most plugins won't be able to read this modified preset chunk, when unwrapped.

The plugins are interchangeable. The plugin preset data is not.


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 Post subject: Re: Novation SL MkI vs II
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:00 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Posts: 4369
Location: The Ableton Live Forum
TabSel wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
...With VSTs, they are completely interchangeable. So you wrap plug-ins, all your old sets will use the auto map functionality if the plug-in is wrapped. It doesn't matter which is loaded. If you ever remove the auto map wrapped versions or delete automap entirely, everything continues to work normally...


Not true.
The wrapper adds 24bytes/6parameters to every preset chunk saved with te wrapped plugin (when you save a project for example). Some/most plugins won't be able to read this modified preset chunk, when unwrapped.

The plugins are interchangeable. The plugin preset data is not.


Sorry I don't follow. Plug-ins presets have all been completely interchangeable for all plug-ins I've ever used. Both with Custom plug-in presets and with generic fxp/fxb. And for that matter Ableton presets as well. Also for other hosts I've tested like Kore, Maschine and Studio One. I have around 50 VSTs in my plug-in folder, not to mention the 20 or 30 I've sold since using automap. Every single one I save as an Ableton rack as a template and I save presets as Ableton racks. Regardless of whether I remove the auto map wrappers or whether I make a preset with either the original or the automap version, I can open projects and racks normally either way. I can open any preset bank made by anybody else when I'm using automap VSTs and I can share presets using automap plug-ins.

In short, I've tested every possible type of interchanging the plug-ins and the presets and I can not find any case whatsoever with VSTs where one can not read presets or existing settings within a project, regardless of what bytes are added. I'm on a Mac though, not sure if that matters.

AU on the other hand, yes neither presets nor the plug-ins are interchangeable. AU format keep the presets as a totally different plug-in. VST keep the plug-ins as the same plug-in.

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 Post subject: Re: Novation SL MkI vs II
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:12 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:05 am
Posts: 86
I once thought the same and was as enthused as you, until I noticed, that some things don't sound the same when plugins get unwrapped...

Try Chromaphone for example. I'd have to test every plugin, which I won't. Novation is aware and won't do anything:

http://forum.novationmusic.com/viewtopi ... 40&t=17145


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