All times are UTC

 
 



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:36 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 106
Hi,

I love Ableton because it really helps to nail grooves and get ideas down quickly.

But I've gotten into the habit of incompletion. I must have 500 x 4-bar/8-bar beats or riffs that I have just forgotten. So I'm wondering if you can recommend a DVD or video series that helps you complete projects. I mainly want to write top 40 pop songs, but I'm also experimental and like other genres. I understand music, harmony, etc. It's just that I would like something that helps when you're sitting in a cafe with a laptop but no instrument. Also, help with understanding the mechanics and format of hip hop and other modern genres. Also, videos on mixing would be good.

I know you link clips up and merge parts of songs, but when I do it, the links seem abrupt. If I write a full song on an instrument, I'm okay, but just with Ableton, it's clunky. Yet I sense that it has great potential to be fast and flowing.

Hope this this makes sense. Mainly I want anything that helps get from 4/8 bars to 80 bars on computer. I've seen things that are too simple - like just chord progressions - and I've seen things that are too complex - like 30 tracks with lots of sound tweaking. I would like something that progressively builds tracks and techniques. Something intermediate and computer focussed (preferably Ableton, but anything exceptional on another system is good too).

TIA.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:09 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 3496
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
Steal this:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/articles/gene ... song-form/

Don't be afraid to follow the advice exactly. Particularly be aware of it, and LISTEN to all your favorite songs.

Make an Ableton arrangement with colored MIDI clips on the top that are labelled and colored for section.

Take a few of the most obvious of the songs and break them up in line with those sections (make sure there is space between each section so you are able to account for variable lengths of parts).

Not everything will fall into the categories.

This is something I've been obsessing over this past week, as, I'd always been only half aware of structure until I heard this turd playing mainstream country music off his iPod at work.

I realized that there is indeed a primary structure for all popular music, and it is your job to decide how closely, or remotely you follow it. NO DISRESPECT if you follow it EXACTLY, because chances are you'll get something that sounds great without even trying. And the whole point is to Get songs finished, and then through that find your Way.

My map:
Intro (might get busy just before it goes to the..)
Verse (sometimes teases towards pre-chorus)
Pre Chorus (you'll know it when you hear it in all the songs)
CHORUS!!!!
After Chorus Jam (I like to call it that, it is this insanity, or space, or anything that happens after the chorus, offsets the world, and drops you eventually into the verse. It can be 2 bars, it can be 16. Listen to songs, you'll know what I mean) [anotjer thing to note about this is that sometimes it is vocal, it depends on what you're 'selling' if you're a pianist, this is your chance to show it, if you're a singer, you can echo echo echo your heartbreakand confusion]
Verse (might be hotter)
Pre Chorus
CHORUS!!!!
After Chorus Jam..... but here's where it'll get cray cray
MIDDLE 8 / SOLO / Alternate Vocal Lines
(This one is funny) MINIMAL BEAT Chorus. A lot of artists will throw you for a loop by making the clap along sing with me minimal variant of the chorus. But it is so predictable. Don't be afraid to use an exploit it anyway. This really cracked me up on all those country songs.....
LAST CHANCE, SHIT HITS THE FAN, CHORUS To infinity with all the ups and downs and echoes of devastation. You're breaking through to the end of this song, tooth and nail... The song itself doesn't want to LET YOU GO. So you wrestle it out of you. Be a hot shot.
Ending. Take a breather.


So yeah, make that into a tidy little map, and listen for it. Literally sit down and listen for it. Over and over and over again. You'll shit yourself. Then try it with your stuff. Then do whatever.

EDIT: btw, if you discover anything that I've missed or overlooked, please tell me. This is all part of my passion and studies of all kinds of music. I'm just starting, so any observations and insight would be great!!


Last edited by yur2die4 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:12 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:37 am
Posts: 40
I found this video a cpl days ago that really explains the things that get in the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_JReiE1uFk

He has lots of other cool videos as well. I found it help full.

DM

_________________
Win 7 Home
Quad Core i5 3.4 GHz
4 Gig Ram


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:19 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 3496
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
Oh, I forgot to mention, if you play an instrument, and it helps you structure songs more naturally, use recordings of it as a guide :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 106
Thanks guys.

yur2die4 - great post! I have used the outline of other songs in arrangement view. It certainly accelerates productivity. I sometimes forget to use it because I'm lured back to session view.

The only problem I have with your technique and Ableton generally is that I often struggle to get the links between sections of the song right. They are nearly always abrupt or don't feel right. When using instruments, there's normally just a drum roll into and out of sections, but sometimes it feels clunky when I do it in Ableton. Maybe if I stick more to arrangement view, I will develop better habits. Session view is too tempting! Actually, I think I'll set the default to arrangement view.

BTW, that songwriting guy says the most popular keys are C, E, and F. I would say that's because C is the simplest key, E is the best key on guitar, and F is an easy key on keyboard. He said none of the hits were in Gb, but Good Vibrations is in Gb and that's my favourite song.

DanMan - good video. I like that guy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:46 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 106
I found videos by Ski Oakenfull where he deconstructs popular songs. For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdeNqQba ... 3C81838288

This kind of thing is very helpful and inspiring. I stayed up to 1:30 last night nicking ideas from these videos. Fun and time flew by!

Does anyone know any other videos that do this kind of thing where they show you the main hooks of popular modern songs using a keyboard? I tried searching, but couldn't find any apart from Oakenfull. It doesn't have to be Ableton. The main thing is that the songs are good and we get an idea of how they are constructed and the catchy parts. I didn't realise they would be available on youtube because of song copyright. I guess there are DVDs of keyboard parts to popular songs, but I'd rather focus on the hooks including bass, synth, vocal melody, and chords, not just keyboard parts exclusively. Lots of fun. And everything I wrote last night was catchy. I think that's because of the mix of visual and auditory stimulation. I don't know why, but it works for me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:17 am 

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:36 pm
Posts: 658
Porns and Godard's films could help you. Maybe.
:arrow:

_________________
http://www.tete-de-son.com/
Soundcloud


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can you recommend videos to help completion of songs?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:38 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 106
Heh.

Have you seen Tom Cosm creating porno music on Ableton? Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshXWwp3 ... r_embedded

BTW, he's an excellent Ableton instructor.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC

 
 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group