Are you getting PUSH?

[yur2die4]

My mom had pretty great pads for beating on until she hit menopause.

....too far?

[H20nly]

oh joy! now were breaking down posts play by play.

please say the same thing again just slightly reworded! maybe this time i'll get it.
they only worked fine because there was nothing else. - better?

hip hop [80s & 90s - damn near synonymous with MPCs] wasn't mentioned previously...
yeah, it was but it's only OT this time. <--i always love that move.

what ever dude. i can tell, at this point, you're a $200.00 tennis shoe kinda guy... i'll keep rockin my Puma Roma while you pump it up.

maybe Maschine II will have a cup holder and little pieces of velvet on the pads for ya.

different strokes i guess. *shrugs*

this.



fuck PUSH. too expensive

[panten]

The pads on the Ren are also no different to other Akai pads. They may all have slightly different "feel" to them but their fundamental design flaw is the same which is why they still have a poor response in comparison to what's available.

Sorry I was under the impression that they did a re-design for the Ren pads. I recall a video sent round on the MPC forums from the devs during the beta testing ( humbnumb/emptysea might also remember) where they were di****g around with the new pads they'd just installed.

Actually I got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and the difference is night and day. On Machine I can put in a synth patch, and play it smoothly on the pads. Do trills, fast type stuff. On the Ren, when I did the same thing (same sound) I got some double triggers and it was not near as fluid sounding due to the lower sensitivity.

I also got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and I have to say that my experience was quite the opposite. They are both subtle enough for nuanced performance. The Maschine pads even felt a little too loose but that might have been because it was a shop floor model that had seen quite a bit of abuse. To me the difference between them was pretty negligible and not really worthy of lengthy debate.

I can't wait to have some time with Push.
This video fills me with great confidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Yl0aUcE54

[delicioso]

Actually I got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and the difference is night and day. On Machine I can put in a synth patch, and play it smoothly on the pads. Do trills, fast type stuff. On the Ren, when I did the same thing (same sound) I got some double triggers and it was not near as fluid sounding due to the lower sensitivity.

I also got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and I have to say that my experience was quite the opposite. They are both subtle enough for nuanced performance. The Maschine pads even felt a little too loose but that might have been because it was a shop floor model that had seen quite a bit of abuse.

Go figure. Like I said, to me the difference was night and day. It was far from subtle. Not sure where you're getting the "felt a little too loose" from either because that doesn't sound like Maschine pads at all to me. In fact, MPC pads are more likely to be described as feeling loose, and much squishier to touch which is why some people who come from MPCs complain about the Maschine pads feeling too stiff for them. Also, don't forget that NI has improved the feel and sensitivity of the pads from the original Maschine to the Mikro MKI and then again on the MKII models.

So the only Maschine you've touched is the shop floor model and also the one you did a side-by-side comparison with?

[Theo Void]

My gear lust goes into over-drive when I look at it and read about it but that's to be expected. It doesn't really fit my work-flow but I could make it. I would rack up all my 3rd part synths and effects so that I could browse them. Hopefully the 8 knobs auto-map to the 8 macro knobs like on the APC40. That's actually the only thing I use my APC40 for anymore.
It's a beautiful piece of kit, that much I can't deny. The step sequencer would be an awesome work-flow for drums I think rather than drawing them in which is what I've always done. Also, I can't deny that I'm intrigued by the note modes and scale modes. It does seem like a whole new instrument in itself and that's mainly what I'm interested in. I play guitar and can "kinda" play keyboard so I think it would be easier and more fun to play on PUSH.

Like many others (I suspect) I'm on the fence between PUSH and MAschine. I'm getting some money soon so I'll defintely be getting one of the two. I LOVE Native Instruments stuff. I use Traktor when I play live w/ an S2, F1 and X1 and it's absolutely fantastic! Much better than using Ableton to play live. But I do all my production in Ableton.

Anyway, as of now I'm un-decided. I already have an APC40 and a Launchpad. Do I need PUSH? No. But all those colors are pulling me in. lol

[panten]

delicioso: really? This all sounds pretty contradictory to my own personal experience. Also just to clarify I compared the MPC Ren & Maschine mkii. I actually preferred the slightly more solid sturdy feeling Ren pads.

You're correct in your assumption that the shop floor was my side by side comparison of the hardware. I spent a good afternoon trying them out and chatting with the staff about workflow etc.

I also got some hand on time with Maschine belonging to a friend and immediately wanted to sell my mpd.

I can't see how else one would evaluate such things other than stealing the damn things

Again, I'll reiterate, to me the difference is so negligible that I would be happy with either hardware controller (not considering software).

is it possible Akai are back on the ball in terms of pad performance? That vid was encouraging no.. And that Jeremy Ellis one, if it gets his seal of approval then I'm halfway sold.

[delicioso]

You're correct in your assumption that the shop floor was my side by side comparison of the hardware. I spent a good afternoon trying them out and chatting with the staff about workflow etc.

I also got some hand on time with Maschine belonging to a friend and immediately wanted to sell my mpd.

I can't see how else one would evaluate such things other than stealing the damn things

Or just test them side by side if your buddy has one, which is what I did with my MKII. Things like the "feel" of the pads are always going to be subjective. But there is definitely a difference in sensitivity and responsiveness between the two that you might not catch just trying out shop floor models. As I explained earlier, I did a rather extensive A/B test just to test the level of sensitivity. Ren's pads felt and responded pretty much like all other Akai pads I've used but Maschine's pads were way more sensitive, registering even the lightest of touches. I even turned up the sensitivity setting all the way up on both. No contest. But where you could really tell the difference was to try some expressive playing of identical synth patches on both.

[BoddAH]

I wonder if it won't be an absolute seller's market for at least for a few months.

With the amount of Ableton users who'll probably want it, the demand will be huge and I doubt the production will be able to follow.

[pencilrocket]

He said MPC 'style'. As in 4x4 somewhat wide pads. Which all of those would fall into that same category.

Yes.

I'm pretty sure that by "MPC style", he meant Akai pads, and not "pads with a 4x4 layout".

No. MPD, Korg padkontrol, Maschine, M-audio Trigger finger have same layout. I would have directly said AKAI if I were an akai fanboy. I don't think you can't understand the phrase in this article. "MPC-style pads"
http://www.musicradar.com/gear/tech/key ... kii-566748

[pencilrocket]

The Maschine pads even felt a little too loose but that might have been because it was a shop floor model that had seen quite a bit of abuse.

Maschine actually has loose pads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce_XOylBCRE

[J0n35y]

I can't decide about Push which probably suggests it isn't for me. Ableton's videos and marketing get me in the mood for it but user videos to date have kind made me thing "what's the big deal about it?". I don't mean that in any insulting way to the guys who have made the effort to put videos up but I can't see past the fact that with a keyboard and Maschine I'd be better covered with an APC40. I don't doubt that those without keyboards or haven't a clue how to play one will absolutely love Push though. I'll be keeping an eye on things.

[panten]

the "feel" of the pads are always going to be subjective.

Sure but I was speaking more about empirical analysis of the hardware in front of me. The shop was quite quiet that day and the staff member (purveyor of Maschine) had a lot of time for me and altered the sensitivity settings, like you described .
My drumming test was to get my nose right down to the pads and lightly use two fingers (index & middle) to see how much pressure was actually needed to trigger. I was actually pretty shocked/surprised at how responsive the MPC Ren pads were considering I'm used to MPD32 & Fat pads. I would liken your night & day analogy to the comparison between MPC Ren & MPD pads but definitely not between Ren & Maschine. I also tried the usual paradiddles, flams, weighted fills etc on both and they were both excellent. I couldn't fault either.

My next test was with Synth settings and I experienced no accidental double hits like you described with the Ren. It just didn't happen. I preferred slightly the Ren pads as they wouldn't trigger instantly upon contact. Think about how a pianist would play keys, or even how you touch type on a computer keyboard. You rest your fingers on the home keys and only when you press down do you get a sound. The Ren felt more natural in that respect, whereas the Maschine did not.

These are the less 'subjective' things I can mention about 'feel' of the pads.

This kind of discussion is always going to be partially subjective as the spectrum of playing style between each user can be pretty broad. I wonder if you were experiencing difficulties with the Ren pads because you own and are used to using a Maschine ( I presume you own one:)

Anyway this is all a bit off topic and only tenuously linked to the topic.

Did you watch that Amit playing on Push vid I posted? It bodes well for the performance aspect to the Push I think.

Pencilrocket: I don't have the same problems as that guy in the vid you posted. I come from a traditional drumming background and tend to lift my fingers right off the pads and use a bit of wrist action when drumming, but I feel his frustration.

[TheDreamisReaL]

Already pre-ordered Push waiting for arrival im stoked can't wait! Just came across this video nice mini performance with push

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm_7olkI ... Fkcv4cFc2S

[puzzlefactory]

I think option 2 (and the people voting for it) is a bit naively optimistic. Hardware doesn't tend to go down in price unless it's either a flop or the next version is about to be released.

Everyone waiting for it to go down in price before they buy it, are going to be waiting a LONG time.

[Tysonviolin]

For me personally, Push will be a device ( like the apc40 was when it came out) that I will have to own to see if it gets integrated into my composition or performance setup. If it does, great! That means it was money well spent. If it doesn't, fuck, I will sell it to recoup what I can. I'm not going to flick through gear mags and websites trying to comprehend what it will do for me. I'm buying it when I have to money to allocate towards it.

When I bought the apc 40 my mind was blown and it will be in my setup for a long time. I also bought an apc20. It never worked quite how I needed it to and I sold it. I try lots of hardware and the pieces that find a place on my table ( real estate is tight) and in my road case are the keepers. They are my friends shhhhh

Btw. Wtf are you guys arguing about?