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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:16 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:33 pm
Posts: 592
Location: Sierra Nevada, Spain
In five years Live will be version 12/13 (if they're still around then). Will you need another five years to learn the new version? What will you do if Live isn't available at all?


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:18 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 358
You could probably be my father if you worked hard on it, but let's forget the whole mid-life crisis thing and all the stuff that goes with the process of aging ;)

I am constantly trying to get to the point, where I can say to myself, that I am sure I can make my living out of music related activities. That's a huge plan. You have to write things down. To give each thought a chance, cause you can never know what will "click".

People will laugh. At your gazillions of ideas that may sound stupid, but as a whole they will form your plan. It's down to small things that you make your money on.

I'd start with writing a blog themed around the idea of "I am 42 and I've left my day job to become an electronic musician". Will be popular as hell.

Only because people want to live other people's dreams.

To make my post a bigger mess, I will add an idea that has recently sprung into my head. I'll be starting an "electronic music foundation" quite soon. Teaching people, organising events (not only parties), spreading the word, living the dream...

The good thing is, that as long as you do things for public good - in this case, spreading the culture - your government will most likely be helpful, providing some funds and support.

My point is, you can't concentrate on making career strictly out of making music. That won't do, nowadays, and will largely depend on your luck. But you can do several other activities that meet with making music somewhere, which are more reliable as a "money source".

Write down things you're good at and try to use your skills in music industry. You may be talented as hell, but It's probably too late to start a career making music. But you can certainly succeed as a patron of arts. Which comes close, gives you opportunity to work with music-related people and will open up possibilities of creative collaborations or whatever you can think of.

It was a pretty much a flowing stream of thoughts, but I hope you got the idea. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:26 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:43 am
Posts: 123
am wrote:
what sort of music do you make?

I have always made my money pretty much exclusively from music.... but very much a "many-hat" wearing musician: Main income from music/tech teaching, but also touring, live sound, albums, soundtrack, sync and TVC (when i can get it).... and this has taken years of hard work and a bunch of sporadic good luck.


^ Not sure the question was adressed to me, but follow the link in my signature, it is more ambient/idm kind of music

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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:30 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:59 am
Posts: 1606
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Ubik wrote:
am wrote:
what sort of music do you make?

I have always made my money pretty much exclusively from music.... but very much a "many-hat" wearing musician: Main income from music/tech teaching, but also touring, live sound, albums, soundtrack, sync and TVC (when i can get it).... and this has taken years of hard work and a bunch of sporadic good luck.


^ Not sure the question was adressed to me, but follow the link in my signature, it is more ambient/idm kind of music


sorry, Q was aimed at OP. i'll check out your stuff though :)

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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:17 pm
Posts: 10
Although you write a moving story it is not near enough to really comprehend your situation and provide advise. First of all ,I suggest you to go to a psychiatrist if you haven't already.

Now for my opinion. I don't really want to sound like a dick but I think you are too old. Of course you can be ballsy and prove everyone otherwise but you have to be realistic about it. It sounds like an adventure but throwing yourself 5 years fulltime into ableton is really hard. Of course its fun because we all do it, however, to really get to the fun part you have to reach a certain level which will take many years. After this point your music will feel fulfilling and entertaining. Before that it's all about getting the tools of the trade so you can express your inner artistic creativity at a later stadium. Think about the pitfalls that lie ahead and that you have time against you. Even if you make it, your age will diminish the pleasure you will get from it. This sounds all harsh but it is my opinion and i am genuinely trying to help
Aside of the time-pressure this adventure is also a choice that has no point of return. This dream has to work out, failure is not an option. Imagine if these are the right conditions to really prosper in your artistic creativity. Imagine how the MLC will strike if this dream is not really what you hoped for. Your liquidity will be declining, you failed your wife and kids and dont have reserves to fall on. You have to see what's at stake. I think you can be worse off than where you are right now.

Another thing to consider is the fact that your at a point in your dayjob where you paygrade will be rising if you have made correct carreer choices and have proper degrees. Why throw all the hard work of your carreer away just when you are about to earn more money. Furthermore your expenses will likely rise during the years because your kids will go to college and you have to think about your pension. Also, it is very unlikely to find a decent job if your musical adventure fails and you are 47. Hello mister what have you done for the last 5 years? We are not hiring you. Just ask my father..

Your wife is a true gem. Supporting you in your dream with al competing interests of a family is really something to cherish. I hope you make your choice based on reason and not on following your 'heart'. I wish all the best luck in this situation. I am in a similar position but in a different age (late twenties) and I am curious how this will work out. Keep us updated mate!


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:08 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:43 am
Posts: 123
am wrote:
Ubik wrote:
am wrote:
what sort of music do you make?

I have always made my money pretty much exclusively from music.... but very much a "many-hat" wearing musician: Main income from music/tech teaching, but also touring, live sound, albums, soundtrack, sync and TVC (when i can get it).... and this has taken years of hard work and a bunch of sporadic good luck.


^ Not sure the question was adressed to me, but follow the link in my signature, it is more ambient/idm kind of music


sorry, Q was aimed at OP. i'll check out your stuff though :)

:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:37 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:18 am
Posts: 111
I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to reply so far. Some really interesting insights and suggestions on here. I have read and reflected on each post and I hope more people in our Ableton family will add theirs. Yes, as some people have said, age is not necessarily on my side but money is (compared to some younger people, anyway). This potentially allows me some advantages, e.g. where once I sent my mixtapes to clubnights, now I'd be more likely to start my own clubnight!(although it's making music that really turns me on these days, more than Djing). It's a tough one, it really is. If I really wanted I could work 10 more years at my current job and retire at 52, living an acceptably comfortable life and doing music full time until I die. But somehow, going for it aged 42, with all the risks, seems preferable to pretending to be someone else 10 more years, then dabbling in music as a retired person. I kind of want to feel I was a musician, not that I was a business man who retired early and then played around with Ableton. And of course I could get knocked down by a bus or die of cancer aged 47 like someone I know recently did. Well, thanks again guys, you're really helping.


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:14 pm
Posts: 23
Buy yourself a nice sports car fella... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:35 pm
Posts: 402
Location: UK
Vocane wrote:
Although you write a moving story it is not near enough to really comprehend your situation and provide advise. First of all ,I suggest you to go to a psychiatrist if you haven't already.


That is lolz but unfair. I recall a great story about a roundtable discussion of psychiatrists are discussing their own virtually identical feelings of unfulfilled dreams and finite time. If the doctor doesn't live any longer than the patients...

To the OP, I would say you have to find a way to accommodate your dreams. What a great challenge! But your main problem is being so very fortunate. You just need to make a little bit of time. You think quitting the job will suddenly free up 40 hours? It won't! Tell your company how it's going to work. If you have to ask delicately and feel it out, make sure you're not still asking and reminding your boss in a month's time. Make it happen. There are, allegedly, other jobs with more flexible working.

If there's one thing that will completely kill your passion for music and life, it's just doing music all the time. Look out for some full-time musos or engineers that are a little older than you. Then try and find ONE of them that is a well-rounded, reasonable sort of fellow, that can walk upright without shuffling, and talk without mumbling or stuttering. A balanced approach will be better for you, for your family, and for your music.


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:07 am
Posts: 77
I think starting your own club night is a good move.

It is a self contained thing which you can make profitable on its own.

Again, this is a thing which you don't need to quit work for. You just need a vision for something which is lacking in your area and have the right budget and hire the right people. Put just enough money in that the production values are noticeably higher than your competitors. But do it smart so LONG TERM costs are low (like buying projectors instead of renting).

Run at a loss for 6 months, try to get some income over the next 6, so over a year you have broken even, but in the meantime you have made something cool, made a bunch of friends, and created income for local bars, lighting, sound techs etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:47 am
Posts: 516
Hi,

iam in the same position as the thread starter, but iam 31 now. When i was younger (16-20) i started making music with my pc and i had several gigs and was kind of succesfull. But i dont wanted to risk too much, so i studied and got a job after that. now iam at his point of desperation.

I have the same suggestion to just gettin fired and making music when i want to make (I have some money to stay alive for some years). But i would say its just a lack of motviation in my job, which is caused by the time i spent for it (50 hours a week).

My solution for this is to try to set my working time down to a 1/2 or 3/4. So i will have more spare time to do whatever i want. Maybe u should try the same first. Isnt it possible for you to get 1 or 2 months unpaid holiday to trying out? Maybe u change ur mind after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:07 am
Posts: 222
Location: Seattle
I respect you for opening up with us like this, its an interesting post for sure. Here are my thoughts:

- the success or the failure of going 100% music is one thing if it's outcome only affects you. I doesn't though, and you have a family to provide for. The kids will cost more, and go to school, etc.

- Success or failure, it will take up a LOT of time that would normally be spent with your family (IE the normal hours of music performance are often the same times the wife is off work and the kids are home from school). I just did a year of mobile DJ gigs (around 25 events) and by the end of it, felt like I was missing out on time tht could be better spent with my wife!

- Why not go part time work (which will at least pay monthly expenses)? Music full time is NOT going to cover medical expenses in your family!

I just think you have to look at your family's future man, college, retirement...

Wish you the best


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:36 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:53 pm
Posts: 2862
Location: london
thegoodsirjames wrote:
So I’m getting to my question. With my savings I could support my family for up to 5 years, and focus on becoming a master with Ableton and finding a path to making a living which involves music.


This part is all wrong. When people usually talk about mastering ableton, they are just starting out. I'd have thought someone in a position to quit the day job would be thinking in terms of the music and Live as just a tool to get the job done.

You don't say anything about your music either. Are you mainly writing? That doesn't take you away from the family. But if you're ready to perform, it probably will. Do you live somewhere with a good scene? If so you can do gigs without having to travel much.

I'm not saying don't do it, just wondering if it's something you've recently got into.

As for taking 5 years off, why not just one year or 6 months to see how it goes? Don't burn your bridges and try to be in a position to restart the 9-5 again. Or as others said, can you work part time?


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 144
I'll throw down my pennies.

Being a "master" at any particular software is over-rated. In no time, you'll be proficient enough with it to use it professionally. The real trick is being good at music - remember that Live, or any other piece of music software, is a tool used to express music. You say you want to leave your job for music, so make that your focus. If you want to leave your job for a piece of software, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

You're not too old. Age isn't the issue, your responsibilities are. If your family depends on you, make sure they don't suffer unduly if your dream tanks. That said, your family is supportive, so you can't use them as an excuse to not indulge yourself.

I started taking piano lessons at 24. I was working a full time night job and finishing up my university degree. I gave myself 45 minutes every day to practice the piano. Of course, I was horrendously tired (those minutes used to be sleep!), but I did it. I didn't wow my teacher or anything, considering that I was barely awake for the lessons, but it has always been my dream to be a pianist, even through a decade of guitar lessons!. Now, paying my student loans and working the same job, I can't afford the lessons anymore. I greatly enjoyed them while they lasted, and even though I'm still a shitty pianist, I took advantage of what I had and made the best of it. Although just a little bit, I chased my dream, and my life has been so much better since.

I don't have the responsibilities you do, being single and without too much of a job to lose, but I'm also trying to make music my career. I've got a gig composing and doing SFX for two games and I'm building a portfolio of re-dubbed movie trailers. Much like with the piano lessons, I've chosen to follow a dream I've had for as long as I've had dreams. Maybe I'll fail, but when I look back, I'll at least know I tried.

Tl;dr - life is short. Suit-monkey slave-labor comes and goes. But how happy can you die if you turn your back on your passion?


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 Post subject: Re: Who has dared to follow their Ableton passion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:05 pm
Posts: 360
its all about finding balance between resources. Time is just as much a resource as money. Given that your current situation allows for more of the latter than the former, look to bring your life back in balance. Think in the short term, is it possible to take a sabbatical? Or work a reduced or compressed schedule?


Remember it doesnt have to be a boolean switch in careers, there can be some gradual development from where you are now to where you would like to be. Set yourself some goals for the next 6 months, devote more of your free time to it, and try to scale back your work time, and produce a project you're satisfied with. To me, its not so much the need to make music a career, as it is a need to make music! Good luck and enjoy your time!


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