Are you getting PUSH?

[-art-]

I use the qwerty keyboard all the time. You're drawing the analogy as if I'm a pianist or keyboardist, but to me it's just about having a larger range than the qwerty for inputting notes

And actually I disagree a keyboard takes thousands of hours to play. You press a note, it makes a sound. If anything it's one of the easiest instruments to play.

[H20nly]

^ agreed... IF you've got the knack.
some people can take two sounds and layer them over a drum beat to make something sweet... while others... with all the music theory and training they can muster... can hardly make a decent peep beyond playing someone else's music.

don't forget about the power of simplicity pencilrocket. i see what you mean in regard to music theory and all the technicalities... but there is always something to be said for the right sound(s) at the right time.

my music depends on it.

[pencilrocket]

oh I see what you guys mean. I'm also just using keyboard to record notes when composing, sometimes qwerty. Typically it says we need thousands of hours of practice to play piano/keyboard like a pro (on stage).

[H20nly]

a "pro" might be able to play some complex whatnot... but it doesn't always take a "pro" to make something good.

[TomViolenz]

It's time for NI to invest in Maschine, a overhaul of software is much needed I do believe it has the opportunity to advance to a complete daw like workstation but simple things like a mixer and a straightforward way to arrange the songs is much needed, that scenes bs needs to go....

Funny because Maschine does have "simple things like a mixer and a straightforward way to arrange the songs". Maybe you're expecting it to behave and look like something else that you're already used to instead of bothering to learn to use it on its own terms? I don't agree that it should "advance to a complete daw like workstation" if by that you mean that it should work like most traditional full-on DAWs with a linear timeline and bloated mouse-centric features. What do you find to be bs about scenes? It's very similar to Live's scenes and clips in session view. It even had realtime recording of clip automation (which Live still doesn't have, until Live 9 is released) when it first came out 4 years ago.

This is where it is totally going into fanboy territory.
Are you saying that things like no multicore support, no song-composition mode, making you hack up complicated work around solutions - using ABLETON LIVE (they are even some of the longest threads on the NI forums!), the stupid mixer section not even having metering on a per group basis (not even dreaming of on a per sound basis) or even something silly (but VERY much needed!) like not being able to adjust the begining of a loop, but only the end, don't need improvement? That people not being satisfied with the way things work, just demand too much...?! With that way of thinking we would have never left 1.0 and gotten to the MUCH better 1.8!
I love my Maschine and do actually think it is beyond what Push will offer (at least in the beginning), but this is ridiculous!

[TomViolenz]

Mannnn please I haven't been a MPC user in a long time but I respect the history of it and if your a real producer you should as well. It's one thing to talk abou Maschine but y'all mitches go overboard with the Maschine talks I'm just tired of y'all running your mouths about Maschine this Maschine that......Any time you wanna post up those homemade hobby beats your making in your apartment it can go down if not sit back shut the fuk up and save those keystrokes.....

I'm one of the people that really loves his Maschine, but I am starting to feel your pain!
Most of the criticism of Maschine you pointed out in your early posts was spot on (before you got draged into a fan war and became somewhat less reasonable)!

I bet both of y'all music you making with Maschine sound just like your weak comments TRASH

That's really unnecessary though...!

[TomViolenz]

As to the question at hand:

No. And the reason is most decidedly above all else: Price!
If it ever hits the 300€ range, probably even if they didn't adress all the complains I have, I'll be all over it.
(And yes, comparing it back with Maschine: that was the price I was paying for my used MK I - and as long as I stay poor I will probably never pay more for either)

Edited to add: Providing the built quality is good, I will be satisfied by 300€ being the price on the second hand market of course

[djadonis206]

i like push more and more (again)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7V_lrhZOW0

I was going to get the Push anyway, but yes, this video sold it. Curious though, I assume that track he made on the fly can be played back so it can be mixed down, edited etc? Correct?

[Evengy]

i like push more and more (again)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7V_lrhZOW0

I was going to get the Push anyway, but yes, this video sold it. Curious though, I assume that track he made on the fly can be played back so it can be mixed down, edited etc? Correct?

i think yes when you press the record button. everything what you are doing should get recorded. but i read that´s not possible to edit the arrangement from push and that´s the point where you grab keyboard and mouse. (it´s ok for me atm)

@all
4:34 says it all ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gidh-pV6jQI

[jsn]

I am going for PUSH because from all I've read (despite what it lacks...because nothing is perfect..yet) it has the best integration with Ableton Live itself of any controller thus far. That is what I desire. I hesitated on APC20, 40 (because I am not *much* of a Session view composer) and Maschine because of the proprietary nature of things and fear of future compatibility/functionality hindrance. I think now the time is ripe to invest in an Abelton controller because I think this is THE Live controller (possibly in conjuction with one of the APC's. I tend to get pessimistic when I'm being sold on things. I tend to read closer when I think I'm being lured into the latest and greatest product, but there was a particular backstage NAMM video with Dennis from Ableton which demonstrated features I would get a lot of use from. I like Dennis's no BS style and I got that he believes in the power of the controller from that vid. I am using Live for the complexity that can be derived from designing with it and less for the convenience of slapping tracks together as fast as possible using all manner of sound construction clips available upon purchase. My hope is that the Push controller will provide loads of compositional inspiration (this is what I understand it to be made for at least). I'm excited about such an investment in hardware that Ableton has made with this device. I have good feeling about further development from this point forward. They've been crammed into some hard spots in the past couple of years by a demanding userbase and by quickly trying to adapt to a lightning-fast developing style of creating music. I sincerely hope that Push is intended to be a controller solution that will be as eagerly improved upon as it's software interface. I hope that from now on, because of the tight integration, they will be considered as one unit so that compatibility between upgrades will not even come up. I believe a lot of time and much pondering has gone into the development of Live 9 and this controller based on the long duration of complete silence about this next version of the software. I like what Ableton have doen for electronic music composition in general so I will definitely support this product combo. We'll soon see!

Edit: I am reading a most excellent article/review of Live9 AND Push in the current issue of SoundOnSound. Well-done and definitely not leaning one way. Here you can read more about Push's integration with Live and about the hardware itself. Nice read. Here's the link...http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar13/a ... /live9.htm

[re:dream]

I am using Live for the complexity that can be derived from designing with it and less for the convenience of slapping tracks together as fast as possible using all manner of sound construction clips available upon purchase.... I have good feeling about further development from this point forward. They've been crammed into some hard spots in the past couple of years by a demanding userbase and by quickly trying to adapt to a lightning-fast developing style of creating music.!

That's a very insightful remark... I have not thought in this way about the nature of Ableton's market...

[-art-]

Hey guys, one of the things I don't get is the whole 'Push always comes with Live' thing. If I already upgraded to Suite 8 and will get 9 for free, will that come off the cost? ie Will there be a standalone Push?

[h3rtz]

preorder discount in hong kong! now i am getting one!

http://www.hktsangfook.com/catalog/prod ... ts_id=1972

i wonder though why its assumed that the price of push will go down considerably after a while. is that something american? the price of the apc 40 in germany was stable from its release until today afaik.

[eddiex]

i wonder though why its assumed that the price of push will go down considerably after a while. is that something american? the price of the apc 40 in germany was stable from its release until today afaik.

probably just wishful thinking.

[jsn]

One other aspect I forgot to mention, behind my reasoning for investing in Push, is that I can only just imagine how creative these MFL programmers within our community will greatly extend it's potential. I own MFL but I am not yet a programmer myself (part of that is the fault of all of you who create incredible devices which keep me distracted), so I'm looking forward to exploring all of the inspiring mods/extensions that could come about for Push when combined with MFL. I'm definitely aiming to start out by experimenting with the new MFL drumsynths combined with LFO control and Gates all racked up in conjunction with Push. And although I've read it's not possible to browse/add MFL devices directly with Push's interface, It's no real issue to wrap n map MFL and VST (many of those are already done), first thing. I think it's rather a good thing, this...limitation of sorts, in part because it is nice to choose oneself which parameters will be mapped partly...the limitation factor itself. (Honestly, I believe device editing and param availability is where we might see some MFL programming extension magik...one can hope.) Can't wait to see what is done with touch-sensitive control and the ribbon control access via Max.

A fine point mentioned in the L9 & Push SOS review is that punch-in recording Session automation can be initiated by record arming respective tracks and moving encoders however the kicker is that punch-out occurs when you take your hand away from the encoder. That's a handy touch-sensitive feature IMO. I imagine in conjunction with the undo option one can get multiple automation layers in there quickly on-the-fly just the way one desires without having to start and stop the session uselessly; this propels the creative flow big time. Most other controllers out there punch-out only after the clip reaches the end of the loop. Furthermore, deleting automation for a parameter is done simply by holding a Delete button and then touching (not moving) the appropriate encoder - fast. efficient. Seriously psyched about this..